The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End Coming to you once again from the Lafayette Hotel in San Diego, California, the New Age and what's the rest of it? I think it's the Inner Light Conference, I think they're calling it. Something like that anyway. My guest tonight is Randy Winters and he has an incredible story to tell. And rather than have me influence what you think about this, I'll just let Randy get right into it. First, Randy, tell us who you are and a little bit of your background and what you're all about. Well, my background is certainly unrelated, I suppose, to the UFO community. I design computer software for banks for a living. And I've worked in the Los Angeles area for a number of years doing that, having my own software business. Like a lot of people, though, over the past years, I've been fascinated with the different interesting things going on in the UFO and metaphysical community because there's a lot of changes going on in our society. Some years ago, I think it was about 1980, I had occasion to meet a fellow named Wendell Stevens who had some tremendous photos of UFOs coming out of Europe, which somehow I felt very compelled to look more into and begin to write letters and want to know more about it. And these UFO pictures were pretty unusual because they were broad daylight. It was better than anything we'd seen before. First, I thought it was probably either some experimental thing by the government or perhaps even something from a television studio or a movie set of some kind. But they turned out to be ongoing almost weekly. This little Swiss farmer named Billy Meyer is cranking out these photos. Well, one thing led to another, and I, out of curiosity and frustration of wanting to know more, it seemed to me if human beings were coming here from another world and were passing on information to us, I wanted to know more about it. But eventually, I wound up going over to Switzerland where he lived. And at the time, I was running back and forth to Europe frequently anyway, so the occasion came up where it was easy for me to go. And I had been told that nobody talks to Meyer. He'd become a recluse, and he had an attitude, and he was tired of the world and didn't want anything to do with anybody anymore. And there were a lot of problems apparently surrounding him now because any number of people had formed around him to control the information and pretty much blocked him out from the rest of the world. Well, I went to see him anyway, and actually my first three weeks, they were really kind of comical, Bill. He has a little farm up in the mountains outside of Zurich, about 45 minutes. I spent three weeks there cutting grass, taking care of the cows and working in the garden and doing things. Bill, he never talked to me. He would just walk around and avoid eye contact and go in the house or whatever, and I thought, well, this is a pretty strange fellow. And not to mention all of the people in the house, which was about 15, 16 people living in the farmhouse with him, weren't particularly friendly either. Kind of had their own little kind of clickish attitude around them or really weren't too interested in sharing anything, except one particular lady there named Bernie Zimmerman who took a liking to me and was answering all my questions, which I had a lot of. But one thing led to another, and by the end of the three weeks, when I decided to leave, I was getting along pretty good with everybody, but I still hadn't talked to Meyer, which was my main reason for going there. Because like a lot of people, I just wanted to go for my own opinion if I thought it was true and what this man had to say, if it was really relevant to, you know, us here on Earth. At the end of three weeks, I left, came back home, and within a week, I got a phone call, and I was from Meyer, and then I was invited to come back. So apparently I had passed some sort of test or something that was okay, and now he was willing to talk to me. I didn't go back immediately, but I waited a few months until summertime came, then I went back. And this time I was welcome, and he came and picked me up at the station, and I stayed at the house with him for most of the summer. So I had an opportunity over a three or four month period of time to get to know him pretty well. As a matter of fact, it ultimately led to me being involved with his group and became his power of attorney to help him with some things. And most importantly, though, I just had a chance to really see him all day, every day, and get to know him very well and hear all of his information because we've heard some reports about Billy Meyer, Pleiadians, and UFOs, and so forth, but most of the world has really never heard it, I would say, like Billy's explanation of it. It's just what we've heard, you know, from investigators, which has been good from the investigative standpoint, but Billy's kind of an enigma. Everybody really kind of wants to know what's going on with him. And he has a rather interesting story to tell. Primarily, I think what threw me off the most when I first met him was he began to tell me that he felt that he had a series of contacts in multiple lifetimes with this same race. And that was the main reason he felt in 1937 that they caused him to be born, along with three other people, to have these contacts. He believes firmly now that he's had contacts for several thousand years with this same race, almost in an ongoing situation. Wait a minute, wait a minute, because I haven't heard of this before. You're saying that Billy Meyer was born, you know, maybe 2,000 years ago, and he lived a life and was contacting these people from somewhere else, and then he died and was reincarnated? Yes. And was born again as someone else, and was contacted by these people from wherever they are, the Pleiades, I think they claim. Pleiades, yeah. And so on up until now he's in this life and this contact is still going on. Yeah, he was not told when he was young, but later in life, and it is his belief now that's exactly what's happened, that he's had reoccurring contacts with this same race over a period of several thousand years. He believes that it is like an ongoing mission, is there in a way of interfering, interacting, or whatever with this planet. He believes that completely. So, and it's interesting also to find out that many of these lifetimes have been some rather interesting, historic people, he believes. I know that he told me his first lifetime, not his first, his second. His second lifetime here on his mission was at Enoch, that he believed that he wrote the original book of Enoch, and that when his contacts started when he was five during this lifetime, that a lot of those awarenesses and old memories were opened up in his mind, and he's lived with that most of his life, he says. He's aware of many lifetimes where this has happened. So he feels somehow instrumental in being like some sort of ongoing prophet running through the ages, where he seems to come back every few hundred years to reinstate this information into our society, which he believes that the Pleiadians are on purpose putting in our society to try to direct us in some particular direction. What do you think about this? Because what you're talking about is something that a lot of people have trouble with the concept of reincarnation. To hear somebody talk about someone who's not only been reincarnated over a whole bunch of different lifetimes, but is talking about during all these lifetimes having contact with some extraterrestrial race from some other star system, I know that a lot of my listeners out there are scratching their head and probably moving to turn the radio off. What do you think about that? Well, I would hope they'd hang on because it does get farther. My personal opinion is, well, actually I didn't have one when I first heard this. It was kind of new to me too, and I tend to be observational first and just listen and inform my opinion slowly. I listened to this for a while. I would say my personal opinion is, combined with knowing Billy well and a lot of his other information, I think it's entirely possible, but I also think to some extent that Billy Meyer's mind is somewhat overloaded a little bit. I think in some instances he's been perhaps injected or infused with too many transmissions and thoughts, and I'm not sure at all points that he can actually discern reality himself. I'm not trying to imply that he's nuts or anything, but I just think that he's somehow, this technology that they've used occasionally to infuse information into his mind, I'm not sure that he's totally aware all the time what's really happened to him. My point is that he's explained to me, which we don't have time here too much for, but he's explained to me on several occasions how the concept of reincarnation works, that primarily that the wisdom from one life is stored in our spiritual self and moves forward to the next one. It's done in the conscious mind and on the spiritual side. So what goes with you is some wisdom that has been gained from the previous lives. So this points to the idea that the big difference between all of us and our intellect and our aptitudes is somewhat, if not all, entirely based upon previous experiences that we've had, that we are right now accumulative experiences of all that's gone before us. Meyer believes that when he was five they opened up a certain part of his mind on the spiritual side that involves what he calls a language of sign or a language of key. And this is some sort of universal language that spirit language understands. And it's part of the key on how people of higher consciousness communicate with the all of the consciousness, whatever you want to call it. Is this something like Jung's archetypes, the language of symbology that's coming to all the community? Yeah, I think it gets into that same area. I think it's getting into the same area. Well, at any rate, Meyer explains to me that he had several lifetimes which he believed happened. Some of them I questioned greatly just because that they were referring to individuals in our history where I don't see any of it in him and it doesn't make sense to me. So while he may well have been some sort of contactee in the past and previous lives, personally I'm not so sure that he may perhaps be remembering it totally correctly or he may just have been controlled in some areas or not and really can't discern for himself. You talk about a technology that's infusing ideas into its mind. How can you be sure this is an alien technology and not a human technology? I'm not, Bill. I will tell you, I've questioned that myself a few times. I'm very familiar. I can honestly say I know Billy better than anybody else in the UFO world at this level and this kind of information. I question that myself because getting to know him pretty well, a lot of the information, even though it's quite helpful and it's educational and so forth, doesn't impress me necessarily as being extraterrestrial. To be quite honest with you, I think the reason that I've always been able to understand it so well is that it's not really that high level of information. And I don't mean this unkindly, but I think I could have written the Billy Meyer material myself in a high consciousness state and a lot of other people probably could too. One of them would have been Karl Marx. Would you agree with that? Well, I really haven't read Karl Marx. I couldn't make that association. But I'm not playing Billy's information down. I'm just saying that primarily it's a mixture of Eastern philosophy, many things we already know. It's a mixture of a lot of historical data which we can't prove. So we basically, as a planet, since we've all been looking at Billy Meyer's pictures, assumed since there was an unexplained metal object floating out there that appeared to have anti-gravity, we just assumed that it's extraterrestrial. I don't. It may be, but it's never been proven to me. I've seen the ships at night, and I can't tell you they're from the other world. All I can tell you is there's something floating there. So you've actually seen these? Only once. I was there after the fact. The pictures were all taken 75 through 78. I didn't first get over there until 86. And when I was there the summer of, I believe it was 88, when I stayed there for the summer, I asked if it would be possible to see them, you know, just from my own experience. So that's true for myself. It was some weeks past, and then Billy told me that it had been arranged and that that night I would get a chance to see them. It was about ten minutes after midnight, and I was brought out in front of the farmhouse and told where to stand and where to watch. What I saw on a clear Swiss night was off the horizon to the south was a white ball of light that shot up kind of like a shooting star in reverse, way too fast to be anything that I think that we have. Kind of came directly up over to the top of the farmhouse, but very high. I'd estimate easily 30,000, 40,000 feet, something like that. Slowed down and seemed to be just kind of lazily wandering for a second and then took off much faster and seemed to just kind of leave the planet. I don't know where it went. It just disappeared from my eyesight within a matter of seconds. And I was told that that was a Pleiadian flyby, just a social call, so I would know that something existed out there. So somehow Billy Meyer or someone connected with Billy Meyer was able to contact somebody in the Pleiadian star group, and they sent a ship several weeks later for you to look at it. At least that's what you were told. Yeah, I was told that the ship came, the actual Pleiadian base is under the mountain somewhere in Switzerland. I was told the ship came from there. And that was my flyby to say hello. What would you, you talked about communications between Billy Meyer and these people, whoever they are. First, I'd like to ask you, what do these people look like? I'm told they look just like us. And although there's no pictures circulating of them over at Billy's house, I've only seen a couple of pictures in his own book. And the pictures I've seen are of a lady who I would say looked Jamaican, dark hair, brown skin, and of a man that has white skin. But I don't know what those pictures, who those people were. So I'm told that those were extraterrestrials that came. Apparently they look just like us. They were told by, through Billy's information, that we share common ancestry with a group of people called Lyrians, who they regard as the home of the human race. That's the oldest known form of the human race they say they know. It dates back about 22 million years, that the Pleiadians are descendants of them, and much of the white race here on planet Earth are also descendants of these people. So there's a common ancestry, they're saying. And that seems to be the main reason why they look into us, watch over us or whatever it is they're doing. Well, that was going to be my next question. Why would they bother coming all across the universe to talk to us and give us a series of messages through a man in Switzerland that nobody really knows. Unlikely prospects. Very likely. Nobody is going to be inclined to listen to this guy. So why? I ask myself that. Billy believes it's because that the kinds of information that they wanted to get across was primarily spiritual and so forth, and that he was trained to do that, and that may well be. I'm not totally sure of that myself. I think one of the reasons they can, even though they say we have common ancestry, it might be just as simple as they are just an advanced race just watching us and a lot of other planets and decide to have an experiment. Maybe just pick one of us. I'll tell you something interesting that's not known. This is kind of my own personal reflection on this. Billy confided to me, and it's not a big secret, when he was young, when he was a teenager, he took off. He kind of ran away from home. He says that the direction of an extraterrestrial lady named Ascot, who's not a Pleiadian, he was told to go to India to study. And he did. He took off on the road for 10, 11 years and traveled through all the eastern countries, learned a lot about different philosophies and beliefs and so forth. But when he was there, he had some contacts. And in his collection, he showed me some black and white pictures taken during that time period in India. He was at an ashram, and he has some black and white photos of disks floating very close to the ground, I'd say up to 300 or 400 feet. He also has a couple of really amazing photos looking down on the earth, I'd say from 10,000 feet, something like that, like if you were in a small plane or something. And there's another disk right below him. These are old black and white photos he shot when he was a young fellow, when he still had two hands before his bus accident. These people seem to have an entirely different mission for coming here. Billy was told that the Pleiadians had been coming here since the 1600s, around 250 to 300 of them, were primarily studying the development of our society. It's interesting that Billy never met any of the other 250 to 300 people, that in his particular case, he was assigned or given to or whatever to this one contactee lady, who he calls Semyasi, who had all the contacts with him. He only met a handful of the Pleiadian beings. So it's saying to me that while others may have been doing something, whoever those others were that were here, he seems to be in a specialized case. It's kind of like they decided, well, let's pick one of them, or let's get one that maybe, you know, we have some information on, and try and experiment. The experiment seemed to be to provide information to maybe the average man type guy. Maybe that was one of the reasons they chose Billy also. They provided him with information. They helped him pull a group of people around him that lived with him. Those people were fed the information. And at an interesting point, about a year into the contacts, Billy was told suddenly one day that, well, it's going very well. You and your people are responding well within the boundaries that we expected. They let him know that it was kind of an experimentation type thing, and they seemed to be pleased that they were hanging in there. Even though there was all sorts of turmoil within the group, you know, people arguing over who's got Billy's favor, and, you know, they started feeling very special that suddenly their group was now in contact with beings from another world. You know, this is beginning to sound like a cult. Yes, it has the, it does sound somewhat like that. And in a strict sense of the word, it probably has become that. That specialty or elitist attitude has stuck with them over the years, and it's been the cause of a lot of problems. It's the reason that Billy doesn't come out in the public, because they are very much in control of what he does and what he says. It's been the problem that I've had, Wendell's had, Lee and Britt Alders, everybody who's been in contact with him one time, others had difficulties over there because of the, you know, the people around him. Billy is a really sweet little Santa Claus kind of guy. And this doesn't mean anybody any harm at all, and he's just as nice as you can be. I can't imagine him purposely ever hurting, lying, or faking anything to anybody. He's just a real sweetheart. But he, there's kind of a small army around him that defends him and keeps him from the outside world. So, yeah, you have kind of a, an elitist, cultist sort of attitude over there. Okay, the next logical question, Randy, is what is the gist of this message? Originally, or messages. Yeah. At least maybe. I know, what Billy told me originally, even though they planned on having several contacts, originally it was for nothing more than photo proofs. They were going, they had decided, even at the first contact, they told him to bring a camera, and he shot three rolls of film at the first contact. Mm-hmm. And they told him the main idea here was to allow photo proofs because they felt it was time to kind of step up the awareness that extraterrestrials did exist. And he shot those first rolls of film and started passing them around to newspapers and magazines. When did this happen? Started in January 1975. 1975. Mm-hmm. Yeah, January 28th, one o'clock in the afternoon. That was his first contact. Then they repeated. They seemed to kind of decide as they went along to keep continuing it or keep doing a little bit more. You said January 28th? Uh-huh. Somebody out there researched that date, January 28th in history. See if you can come up with anything significant. Then write me a letter, please. Yeah, it would be in Swiss time, one o'clock in the afternoon. Actually, 1.20 in the afternoon is when it happened in Swiss time on that date. The other interesting date, too, you might want to look up while they're looking for it is February 3rd, 1937, 11.20 in the morning. That's when we're told the Pleiadians caused Billy and three others to be born. And they're saying it's because of some sort of energy shift that astrologers are into having to do with this time period. So that might be an interesting little thing to look into also. So what's the gist of the message? What is the, what are they saying? Well, past building awareness that they're trying to gently awaken us, there was a lot of time spent on trying to, I believe, prepare us, I guess you'd call it a spiritual message, Bill, that one that we're not alone, that life proliferates throughout the universe, how it is tied to the universe and the energies in the universe. I would say a lot of the message was centered around the idea of reincarnation and the concept that we need to learn to be more responsible for ourselves. They seem to be viewing us through their little technology microscope, if you will, and seeing that we're having a lot of problems in so many different areas, and they quite honestly admit they're confused on what they could do, if anything, about our present social system. And they've taken the opportunity to educate Meyer a lot in areas of spirituality, which they feel might be helpful. But what kind of advice do they have about our social system? Not too much. They're not offering solutions, per se, it's mostly observations. It's more like Spock-like. We see this problem and this problem. Mostly a lot of his information is discussing the difficulties in power structures, greed. On several occasions they've taken him on board the ship and let him see political intrigues, assassinations, murders, and things like that as an education to him about how our world really runs. And trying to wake people up to the fact that we have to start taking responsibility for ourselves and get our world back. That our world's a little bit out of control. That the general public is behaving too much like sheep, maybe is the word. That they're just... Sounds like me. Maybe I'm sending that message. Wow, you're sending me a part. And I agree with that to some extent. We're talking here about a planet that does have a lot of problems and we're in the 90s now and history's all over as we're watching it happen. If people do need to start taking more responsibility for themselves, their town, their families, their communities, too many people just step back and watch it happen. And that's been going on I know for a long time, the history of our civilization. But we're finding out more and more that there are an awful lot of powers that be that are in control of too many areas of our life that we've got to get back. I certainly agree with that. Whether it's coming from an extraterrestrial or whoever it's coming from, I agree with that. Now, my listeners don't know this, but I've done a lot of research into the Billy Meyer thing. I've read all of the Billy Meyer material that I could get my hands on most of it came through Wendell Stevens. and the message that I get is that we should be practicing some sort of world socialism is what I'm reading from that material. Would you have any comments on that? Well, let's define socialism and I'll see if I can offer an explanation from my side. Well, for instance, they advocate that private property should be done away with. People should not be allowed to accumulate a lot of wealth. In my estimation, it goes against what I believe because I believe that people who don't do anything shouldn't have anything. And the people who put out the effort to work should enjoy the fruits of their labors. but the message I get from the Meyer Chronicles, so to speak, I call them chronicles, you can call them whatever you want, is that we should all be sharing everything that we have and that no one should be allowed to amass fortunes or property or things like this. Have you? Yeah, I think your insight there is pretty good. You can read that in there for sure and that comes from the fact that their explanation of how their society works. Now, they have a society apparently something like that. That doesn't mean it's healthy for us at our level of growth. I think we have way too many lessons to learn before we can jump to that kind of society. That's something that a society has to move very slowly towards. On their world, for instance, no, there's very little. They don't have economics, for instance. They don't have the system of rewards like that. No cash. All you have to do is... Are you listening, folks? Yeah, there's no cash there. They have a system where it's more rewarded by just efforts. You can put in whatever your talents are, be it a lawnmower, a guy, or planetary engineering, whatever you do. If you donate something to the society, then the society takes care of you. But while I don't think that would work for us, perhaps it works okay for them because they seem to like it. They don't have a control system. It's one nice part about it. There's no great power system really to answer to. It's a very free and open, fly wherever you want to, do whatever you want to kind of society. So in that respect, it might be very open, but I think we're a little too irresponsible to live that way yet. I don't think an examination of the Pleiadian morals or philosophy is very helpful to us. Any more perhaps than maybe a good science fiction novel because we're just too far away or too remote from the kind of responsibility that we can live like that. Look at all the problems we're having right now just working through our own economic system. True, it probably needs some repair here and there, but it's way out of control. It's very lopsided, and it's not really serving the interests of everybody on the planet. Maybe, I don't know if it ever was designed that way really. But now we face the problem that there's over 5 billion of us on this planet and it's obviously the economic system is straining. It's not providing the opportunities for everyone. So obviously we need to change or grow with it. So, yeah. Well you're saying in their society and what they're recommending to us is that each should contribute according to his abilities and should receive according to his needs. It's something like that, but I wouldn't use the word recommend because I don't see anywhere in the writings where they're telling us to do that. Matter of fact, they've gone to a lot of trouble to kind of hide their way of life and there's not even much of that in the notes because they don't want us reading that into it. I don't think they have any desire to really influence us. I haven't really felt that, especially not from Billy. I don't get that. But don't you think that the logical conclusion of anyone receiving some kind of a message like this from someone who lives in the star system and is so technologically advanced that they can get here, number one, right, just telling us these things would create the desire to imitate them because they're supposedly more advanced and would supposedly know more and supposedly would be better spiritually developed and all of these things that they don't have to recommend. I mean, it's just a natural human trait to want to dislocate them. Certainly, they'd be intelligent enough to know that and I'm glad you touched on that because I think that's kind of what's happened in Schmidt-Rudy and Billy's place where they've imitated to some extent a Pleiadian way of life. Billy has multiple wives. He's legally married to one, but there's basically three wives there. Now, this is very much like the teachings of the Mormon church. Yes, follows that a little bit. Billy's lifestyle with the group of people around him is actually kind of imitating, you know, like, you know, what we're talking about here, a Pleiadian way of life where there's a group of them living on a facility. It's working for them. Sort of like a collective. Yeah, they all pitch in. When I was a member, everybody pitches in first Sunday of each month. You come and you pay your X amount because they all have jobs and they contribute to taking care of the welfare. And that's fine for them, I mean, if they want to do that, but I don't see it working real well. As an outsider's observation, I don't see where it's working too well, you know, for them. No, I don't think right now we need to take, I mean, alien worship is something that I worry about a little bit. You see that if you've exposed. I worry about the worship of anybody. Exactly. Especially aliens where we really can't live up to that kind of responsibility yet. So, yeah, I think that's probably one of the main reasons they don't land on the White House lawn and expose themselves more. They're probably quite aware there would be a mass overload of that sort of problem, you know. They even mention that in certain cases when they have exposed themselves to other planets, they've got into a position where they've become babysitters or they were worshipped as gods or they had to just take over. And at that point it interfered with the free will of the people on the planet and it didn't work out and as they put it did not serve their own interest anyway. Okay, hold that thought. We've got to take a short break. I'll be right back, folks, right after this. Quick pause. Okay, I did it. Randy, you mentioned two names earlier in the broadcast. One was Asket and the other is Semyazze. Do you know any significance to these names? Well, yes, Asket was the name of a lady who was having contacts with Billy which started when he was 16. On his 16th birthday, he received some telepathic transmissions. The transmissions identified themselves as this lady named Asket and he had a series of ongoing, mostly telepathic contacts with her for a number of years. There were a few physical contacts which led him into some time travel excerpts which are pretty amazing. And of course, Semyazze was the name that was given to the Pleiadian cosmonaut from 75 through 78 that he had all of his contacts with. yeah, especially Semyazze has been the major part of the entire Pleiadian information. Were you aware that there is mention of a Semyazze and an Asket in the mystery religion of Babylon and ancient Egypt? What, what, I mean, how does that apply to the... I don't know. I've heard that before and I'm not sure what, if any, relationship there may be. I can tell you this, that as far as I know the name Asket was the correct name. I'm told that the name Semyazze was not the correct name of the person that he had contacts with. That name was chosen when they began to take his notes from German and translate them into English. And I'm not sure that was even the real name used. It was chosen by the people that translated the material. Why do you think they would be using names that applied to ancient Egyptian demons and gods? Yeah. Good question. I know for some of the names. This all took place in the Osirian cycle. It's all a part of the mystery religion. Why, I mean, why would they be using the same names? Well, the names, for instance, like Pata, Quetzal, and Semyasi were used. Those are the three main characters which are all historic, Egyptian, Mexican reference, and so forth. Why they were chosen, I don't know. I've been kind of, supposed, sworn to secrecy on who did it years ago. It wasn't Billy that did it. Those weren't the names that he was calling the people when he had the contacts. I can tell you the reason that they were, the names were changed was that at the time that the contacts were going on, Billy and the people were very concerned that other people would claim that they were having contacts with these same people. And so they chose these names on purpose as if someone else started using them they'd know that they were a fraud. And then the contacts continued and the contact notebooks got out with those names on it. It's never been changed. Hmm. That's very interesting. Who are these people that are surrounding Billy? Well, they're primarily farmers. There's a group of them about, there's 25 in the core group called the FIGU, F-I-G-U, and that's a German acronym for Free Community of Interest in Border and Spiritual Sciences and UFOology. That's a metal school. Yeah, so we're very glad they put it in that acronym. How can you remember it? Yeah. So we just remember FIGU. There's 49 people in the FIGU, 25 active, what they call the core group, and that's the center group as they call it around him, that own the material, responsible for the books and dissemination of the material and getting it out to the world. The other 24 members are people who don't make those decisions but contribute financially or whatever to the group and possible. I was in the FIGU for, was it two years, and I was number 50. And since I'm no longer in the group, I assume there's still all the way 49 in the group. I meant to ask you about that. I received a letter from Billy Martin. How he got my address or why he would ever write to me, I don't know. But basically what this letter says was that you were not to use his material nor represent him. Can you explain that? Because I know it went to a lot of people, not just me. I have no idea why he would ever send it to me because in the first place I just flat didn't give a damn. Well actually, he didn't send it to you. Billy, I don't think even knew those letters went out. Oh really? There was the point with... Somebody signed his name. Yeah, there was the point, here's what happened. During my tenure as being in the FIGU, there came to a point where I was having difficulties. And here's an interesting story, I don't think I've ever mentioned this to you, but you'll remember a few years ago about that time I had a little meeting and I got a lot of friends together and you came and gave a talk. And that turned out the next day the phones were ringing off the wall from Zurich that how dare I support anybody else's information and material. If I'm going to be a member of the FIGU I better not do that if I know what's good for me. The finger wagging at me. Well that was a little upsetting because I'm very open to listening to anybody. We all have a right to talk and say our piece. And you weren't supporting my material. You just asked me if I would come and give a presentation on what I talk about and you did this not just with me but with several people. Yeah. Well that got me in trouble. Right after that certain members in the FIGU started complaining about special privileges that I had because I was the only one in America and this, that, and the other and jealousy started breaking out a little bit. I then sat down on a videotape recorder and said goodbye to the FIGU and said I no longer want to be part of the FIGU. This was not my interest in being involved in it. I just came to learn I didn't want to get involved in all the politics and the stuff. I sent the tape over to Switzerland. Didn't hear anything for about three months and then this letter that you're talking about I got one just like it a couple of days before that. As it turns out there was a couple of people here in America who were very intent on wanting me to get out of the FIGU and were very jealous and very angry. Got a copy of the letter and actually broke into my house and stole out my database got my mailing list and mailed it out to everybody on my mailing list. They'd gone to the copy spot, copied the letter and sent it to you and everybody else. So that's how the letter got circulated around. I don't think at this point the people in the FIGU have any idea that it was mailed out to anybody but me. It was a letter to me. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it was addressed to you. Yeah. That's why I couldn't figure this out. What am I doing with this letter? Yeah, a lot of other people called me too and said, why am I getting your mail? A lot of people thought they got my mail by accident. But that's what happens. Some rather jealous, unhappy people decided to cause me some grief. What do they have to be jealous of? I mean, this whole thing is so incredible and anybody involved with researching or dealing with any of these subjects on no matter what level, whether they're the total way out kook or whether they're a legitimate objective investigator or whether they're sort of sitting on the fence wavering back and forth. It makes no difference. They all suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, so to speak, to quote some famous gentleman who lived a long time ago. Why would anybody want that kind of treatment? Simple groupie mentality. Somebody trying to get close to Billy and the way to do it is to go to Billy and say, Randy's messing up and he's doing things and we'll do something about it and so forth. Billy just kind of nods his head and this has happened not only with me but all the investigators who've worked on the case have kind of come to the same end by the same sort of problems. Just dissension among the ranks, among the people all vying for Billy's attention. Now, you know I have a degree in photography. The still photographs that have been produced by Billy Meyer, I don't give much credibility or credence to. The movie footage, however, that he is taking is quite astounding. We've had it analyzed. We've put it on a computer. We've done everything that you can possibly do to try to find out any fakery or trickery with this movie film and we can't. We do know that within the intelligence communities of the world, they've developed the art of photo fakery, so to speak, to a level that we don't even know what the level is. So, it's possible that these things could be faked but we haven't been able to find, through my expertise and the expertise of others who really know how to do it, and we've taken these films to some pretty well-known people and it's even been put on the computers at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and they've looked at these films. Nobody can find anything wrong with them and I find this absolutely incredible. It's the only UFO footage that I've ever seen besides some that I've taken myself that can withstand this kind of a test. Now, this tends to lend some credence to what Billy Meyer is saying, but then again, we don't know what level of ability they've developed in secret to be able to fake a movie, movie film footage. Right. Do you think this guy is really telling us the truth or do you think that maybe there's some level of manipulation of his mind where he's telling us a story that he really believes happened but maybe didn't? What do you think about this? That would be my opinion. Billy believes it. I don't think Billy's making any effort to fool the world. If he has been fooled, I really don't think he's aware of it. I commented once before to someone that when you get close to Billy and know him, you find that he's an unusual personality in that he's a very simple, just one of the guys sort of person around the house. But the minute you start asking him questions, say, Billy, how did the universe start? Something seems to click mentally and he's sharper, clearer, and he just goes like a machine. Is it like something he's memorized? Not maybe memorized, it's just that he knows it so well like he said it a million times and he just goes on and on and on. He's tireless in that sort of area. But on the other hand, he's just a normal guy that likes to go to the mall and look at the women and read a magazine like all the rest of us. He's an interesting phenomena. It's quite possible that much information may have been somehow pushed into him and whatever means I don't know. Well, there's a lot of things here that are on a level that need to be looked at. One is we know that the secret societies have literally gotten to the point where they control all levels of the government, society, and the military in this country, most of the major countries of the world. We also know through studying the secret societies that these names like Asgap, Pata, Sanyazi, are all connected with the mystery religion of the Osirian cycle, the worship of the sun, and things of this nature. We know that the number 24, which is the group surrounding Billy Meyer, is a significant number in that the ultimate utopia in the world that they plan to bring together, the one world government, is supposed to be ruled by a council of 24 elders. And you hear this from other contactees. This guy in South Africa who claims he went on board a ship and spoke to God and God had these 24 elders who were the rulers of the universe, so to speak. All of these things. I mean, you begin to put it together. The fact that he has several wives and you understand that the Mormon church came right out of the mystery schools also and practiced many of the same ceremonies that is practiced in Freemasonry and the ancient order of the Rosen Cross and so on and so forth. It begins to sound like the mystery schools have control of Billy Meyer. Now, I don't know if this is true or not. I don't either. I certainly considered that and you can't rule it out because there's certainly a lot of technology on our own plan we don't fully understand. And Billy Meyer's information and even the pictures like you talked about, the photos, it's possible to make those. We could do that now. even though I know that you probably found out also that even in many of the still pictures there are evidences of some sort of energy waves coming off those ships. They are detectable in certain high frequency ranges. Some of the pictures have revealed that. Billy himself, no, I don't think he ever faked a picture at all. He's not the type. But it's, if it's not Pleiadians coming from the Pleiades, somebody came in a metal ship and somebody's doing something. because of the Meyer information they're directing us towards what we could call Eastern philosophy right now for the sake of our listeners that we don't have time to really tell them everything. They're telling the other thing. East always comes up to you. Yeah. The each contributes according to his abilities and receives according to his needs is right out of the Communist Manifesto which the future one world government is going to be a totalitarian socialist government. I mean, what we're hearing from these, not just Billy Meyer, and don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to attack you are Billy Meyer. What I'm trying to do is find the truth of all this because there's so much deception involved. That's what I'm ultimately interested in. I don't care who it hurts or helps even if it hurts me. I want to get at the root instigation of where is all this coming from and what does it mean? Is it a manipulation? Are we really on the wrong track? Are these really extraterrestrials? Or is somebody sitting in the basement of the Central Intelligence Agency in Virginia having a good laugh? Of Virginia having a good laugh and turning dials and playing with people's minds? You know, I talked to an intelligence guy once and told me that that he had seen one of the Meyer ships at an underground facility that Meyer was considered he could be because of his years in India he was exposed and had real contacts and they had picked him up and designed all this to be kind of a folk hero to direct, you know, to see what they could get away with. That was a scenario that he painted to me. And you can read that in where that may have been possible. I don't know if that happened or not but that is a possibility because we don't have, what we do have is, like you said, great motion pictures. We have movie films showing that something metal about 21 feet in diameter flew around. Okay, whether or not we really have that capability I'm not sure. I don't know if back in 75 we could have made those photos or not. Maybe we could now. I'm not sure. We have some metal samples that were given to IBM to Marcel Vogel which were pretty convincing that they were either off-world and they were certainly a technology beyond what we thought was our ability back then. At least I assert. But when you examine the crystallography report of the analysis of those metals the samples could have been made in orbit in one of our spaceships. That's exactly right because that was Marcel Vogel's finding that it was a cold fusion process probably done in outer space somewhere. Right. Well, not necessarily out of space but in a gravity-free environment. Gravity-free environment that's what he said. Yeah. So thanks for correcting me there. But yeah, so at the time to us at 75 that seemed wild. That's convincing. If Marcel says it, okay. But we need to question it. We certainly need to. I mean, I'm kind of known as the proponent of the Pleiadian information and even though I am I never really recommend it to people. I don't tell people to do anything with it. I just tell it as best as I can to ask them. Well, my experience is that you're not so much a proponent but you're certainly making all of this known to people. Yeah. And let them make their own decisions which is one of the things I admire about you. You're not trying to shove this down people's throats saying this is what you have to believe. You're just saying this is what happened. This is what's been communicated. Make up your own life. Exactly. Well, that's the way we should be with one another and not to mention I'd be very embarrassed if five years from now found out that we did find out there was a flaw and it's not what it was supposed to be because we don't know everything about the Meyer case. For the benefit of my listeners who may not know who's Marcel Vogel? Marcel Vogel worked for IBM during the 70s. Among other things he holds the patent for inventing the floppy disk that we all use. And he's a metal urges who worked on IBM staff at that time and when the metal samples from the Pleiadians were given to Billy Meyer they were passed to Wendell Stevens. Wendell Stevens chose Marcel Vogel as being a reputable corporate source at IBM to do the actual examination of the metals. Was there any trail to make sure that somewhere along this process of passing it from one person to another somebody didn't switch? I don't know. You'd have to ask Wendell that so I don't know what kind of precautions were taken there. Quite frankly I wouldn't trust anything Wendell Stevens told me. Oh, okay. Well, then that's my you'd be the only guy that I know of. Ever since he came out with this photograph of a UFO which was actually a double exposure of a section of sky and a jellyfish. And a jellyfish. He had published that in his book as a picture of a UFO. Everything that comes from Wendell Stevens from now on in my book goes into the caution, not credible, be very careful, examine every single thing with a fine tooth comb department. Well, not just Wendell. Even you brought that up for our listeners out there. That's an attitude we should all start taking towards most things. Get the truth yourself. Oh, my listeners hear that all the time. My admonition to everyone and I always say it somewhere during my show on most shows, not all, but most shows. So they've heard it probably at least a hundred times that they shouldn't believe anything. They should listen to everything that everyone says no matter who's saying it. They should read everything that everyone prints if they possibly can if it's humanly possible. Read newspapers from different opposing points of view so that they can get all of the available information and not believe anything, period, not even from their own mother unless they can prove it in their own personal research. And I've said it so many times that people probably out there shaking it, oh, there he goes again. There he goes again. You've got to listen to this again. But you're right, Bill. Well, it's the only thing that's going to keep us healthy, I believe, because there's so much deception in this world right now to bring about a complete change in everything that there is, that people are losing sight of what they're losing for what they're gaining, where we're headed with this, what's the guarantees that we're going to have any individual rights, who's taking care of the individual, who's minding the store, what's going on here? Exactly. I was here yesterday and that whole aisle had something in it. I'm here today and it's all gone. Now what's going on? What's going on? You're absolutely right. Be there Pleiadians, Greys, or whoever it is, that's their world, their planet. And we have to face up to the fact this is our planet and it's going to go where we take it. This is our world and our life. And we're responsible. We are definitely responsible. Each individual is responsible. If there's any main message that I always got from Billy, it's to just tell people to learn to be responsible for themselves. Now, again, for my listeners, you all know me. You've been listening to me for a long time if you're a listener of this show because once you start listening to this show, you can't stop no matter how hard you try. I just want to make the point here that the series, which began last night with an interview with Timothy Greenbeckley tonight with Randy Winters, and we're going to continue with, if I can, try to get interviews with almost everybody at this conference. None of this necessarily reflects my beliefs or the beliefs of WWCR or anyone else. And when Randy Winters talks about what Billy Meyer says or has received from somebody claiming to be from the Pleiades, it doesn't necessarily reflect the belief of Randy Winters. And you, before you accept any of this, should give it a real long, hard look and do some real intensive investigation. And if you can come up with some hard proof, I would strongly recommend that you put it in the box with a question mark on it until sometime in the future that we can't. In any case, all of this stuff about UFOs and extraterrestrials and metal samples from someplace else and messages delivered that seem to have the signature of Karl Marx affixed to the bottom of them is interesting. Contrary to the belief of the vast army of sheeple out there, it does mean something. It is steering us, it is changing our collective conscious, if you will. It is making us look at the universe and the world differently. It is a part of whatever vast manipulation is going on to steer us into a different future, which is masked by a huge question mark. We don't know what it's going to be. We don't know where we're going to fit into it. If it's like the utopias of the past that people have tried to bring into this world, then we're in great danger. If it's truly from some benevolent source that's trying to steer us into a new era of enlightenment, quote unquote, which comes directly out of the mystery schools, we better find that out. And what I'm doing on this series of shows is trying to bring you different viewpoints from different people and try to open your mind and make you look at this stuff because somebody's got to start looking at it. Because believe it or not, you're being affected by it through TV commercials, through movies, through things that you read, shows that you watch on television, you don't even realize that these ideas and these things are being injected into your subconscious. They are, I can assure you. And there was a time in the not-too-distant future when you asked someone if they believed in extraterrestrials. The vast majority of America would have said no. And that wasn't too far back in the distant future. We've been bombarded with so many things of an extraterrestrial nature, including movies and television commercials and sitcoms. And one morning, one Saturday morning, on a kid's show, Gumby, Gumby was abducted by extraterrestrials and all the children of America sitting in front of the television were watching this. So it's beginning at an early age. And it's moving us. It's moving our society and our world in a direction that we're not fully conscious of yet. And my message is that we better get conscious. We better find out. And we better find out why. Who's directing this? And there's a million questions that have to be asked that at this present time have no answers. Would you like to comment on that, Ray? What do you think about all this things? Well, I agree. Everywhere in our society, there are, you know, these strong evidences of how we're being slowly coerced through advertising and through motion pictures and the different media events. The public is being led around. I mean, environment is so, so important to the simple, conscious mind of people. You know, everybody out there right now, I can sure, can think of someone they don't like being around. They're comfortable, uncomfortable around. They can't get away, wait to get away from. At the same token, if you're around people of high consciousness that you like, you feel better, you react different. It's so easy to control people, not to mention with all the technologies that are being broadcast as these days that affect us. So we all have to be very careful. It's a very difficult time. I just kind of like to say, as far as the Pleiadian information, I think what the, if overall they were trying to do something, it might be to direct us just towards this, to discover truth for ourselves, be responsible for ourselves. They know we're going through some difficult times. They're trying not to be a part of interfering with our own free will, while at the same time they're trying to, you know, help us become more aware of ourselves so we can move along the road. We are in a changing world. Fifty years from now, I don't know what the history books are going to say about us, Bill, but they're going to look back at this time period and, you know, see a very difficult time when society literally almost probably got pulled apart and couldn't figure out where it was going. Well, that seems to be what's happening. Yeah, there's so many forces at play here, so we have to, as people, first get ourselves together and then start taking control of our world and I don't know what the world's going to be like twenty years from now, if it's going to be, you know, something new, maybe we'll have an entirely different world. We've had communism and socialism and democracy and all these other things. Maybe something new is on the horizon that we're going to make. That's really strange what you did. Most people don't understand it, but communism, socialism, and democracy are all the same thing. Well, this is a republic. This is a republic, folks. Don't forget that. Democracy always ends up in socialism, which always ends up in communism. It's a natural progression. One man, one vote, no matter how delicious it sounds, always ends up in the majority voting themselves everything until nothing's left and a dictator is forced to step up and sort everything out. And that may be where we're heading. I long for a better time where wisdom is rewarded and we do things for the right reasons. Well, unfortunately, human nature, anybody who studies human nature knows that that's not likely to happen in at least the foreseeable future. Man is, as we, those of us who've been listening understand, is basically flawed. And the idea that there's going to be a utopia or a heaven on earth has all kinds of inherent flaws weaved into it. So, you guys sort it out and info tomorrow night. God bless each and every single one of you. Good night, folks. Good night. Good night. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.