Tips in audio And I will move you. I will move you. I will move you. I will move you. I will move you. I will move you. I would like for you to pay very special attention. And we'll be right back to talk with Tina Terry and Mark Terry, who are Wayne Benson's apprentices, I guess. So don't go away. We'll be right back. A long, long time ago, I can still remember how that music used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance that I could make those people dance and maybe they'd be happy for a while. But February made me shiver with every paper I'd deliver. Badly down the doorstep. I couldn't take one more step. I can't remember if I cried when I read about his widowed bride. And the music has sort of died. Isn't it, Tina? Looks like it. I need you to get real close to that mic when you talk. Hello, everyone. I'm really glad to be here. This is really an experience. This is Tina Terry and Mark. Good evening. Would you like to sort of explain to the listening audience who you are and what you've been doing? I've already told them, of course, that you're apprentices to Wayne Benson. Who is Wayne Benson? Well, Wayne Benson, as we affectionately call him, is the Freedom of Information Act, the FOIA master of the universe. He's been doing Freedom of Information Act requests quietly, steadily, and persistently for the last 22 years to many federal agencies or alleged agencies, specifically IRS, BATF, FDA, EPA, and all the other alphabets. And he has specialized in finding out a lot of information about IRS and, by default, BATF, because IRS and BATF are one and the same thing. It's an AKA or alias. Now, most of the people out there don't know that. I know a lot of people are shaking their heads saying, you know, what's going on here? Well, we usually get that response. In fact, when I say that to people and I can see their faces, I usually say to them, oh, okay, I know that expression. I understand. Yes, you think I'm taking some kind of mind-meltering substance or something, but I can show you documents Wayne has uncovered. It's kind of a web of different connections than what we all think. And so what we ask people is to just put aside their old beliefs, at least for a temporary time when we're talking about this and demonstrating it, and just look at connections that are in the law. Everything you think you know is not what you know. And all of this, Mark, can be proven. Absolutely. Everything that Wayne deals with is strictly by what the law says. What the law says, what's in the delegation orders of whatever organization he's dealing with, etc. There's no guesswork involved. And how did you two get involved with all of this? Well, I had had a lot of problems with the alleged IRS, and I had been looking for some truthful information and had worked my way through a lot of information that sounded really good, but when it came down to actually being statutorily supportable, it was not. And a friend of mine introduced me to Wayne. I looked at the materials that he was working with, and the first thing about Wayne is that he doesn't purport to know everything. He doesn't claim that there's a silver bullet that's going to kill the vampire. He doesn't say there's one magic solution. It's a very, very complex issue. And what he does when he approaches court cases or any kind of legal wrangle, he says he thinks of it as a bunch of sticks. And what you have to do is you have to pull out these little twigs one by one so that the bunch will collapse. And what the government is trying to do is put in twigs one by one so that they have a big stick to beat you with. And basically, the way they operate is under the color of law, and through intimidation, people don't challenge, they don't study, they don't do the research, and so they get caught in these traps. That's correct. The way it works is they make a statement. You have to object timely to it and on point. You can't go back through time and object. It doesn't work that way. They make a statement, I object, and I assert the facts. So, for example, if they call me a taxpayer, quote, unquote, I would have to object because the definition of taxpayer in the regs is a person who's required to collect and pay over the tax, and I am not a government official who's required to do that. What a lot of people out there have a misconception about is that the IRS is a private corporation or that it's an illegal, unconstitutional thing. The real kicker is that there really is no one IRS. It's not a thing. It's just a term that's been adopted by various entities. So if you think of it as a facade, and we have a joke around our office, we count them. You know, how many can you count? Well, we've gotten up to about nine, and a big week will be one when we discover a new IRS. And we can rattle off a bunch of them, but there is no one IRS that's within the Department of the Treasury because it's not on their list of organizations. And we take this in the meetings with the alleged IRS all the time, and they walk out. Now, let's, you know, the WACO hearings are going on now, and the BATF is really the focus, or supposed to be the focus of this investigation. And on the first day, the administration and the BATF and everybody thought that they had won big, giant scores, until last night, actually, when their whole thing fell apart and all of the testimony supported everything that we have found in our investigation and what we've been trying to tell the American people for a long time. C-SPAN, when they took a break, said, we'll be right back, and then never came back to the hearings. National Public Radio today refused to broadcast the WACO hearings. The day before, they had broadcasted them all day long. And the reason is, is because it has turned out to be exactly what we said it was. It turns out they didn't have a warrant with them. They weren't trying to serve a warrant. They were doing what they call a dynamic entry. And, you know, it's just absolutely incredible. So let's concentrate tonight, if we can, on who is the BATF? Where did they come from? Where do they get their authority? What is their jurisdiction or their venue, as it is sometimes called? And let's go from there. Which one of you wants to tackle this first? Okay, we can start with a little thing called the List of Organizations Under the Department of Treasury, Title 31, USC, Chapter 3. There's a list of the organizations there. It goes from 301 to 309, 321 to 331, subchapters 1 and 2, Organization and Administration. Some things suspiciously absent are the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms and Internal Revenue Service. BATF was formed by the stroke of a pen on June 6, 1972 by a Treasury order. This was by the Secretary of Treasury or one of his administrators brought BATF into being. Prior to that, there was an organization known as the Federal Alcohol Administration. Federal Alcohol Administration, as many of you may know and some of you may remember, were enforced during Prohibition. Was this the Elliot Ness thing? Exactly. Okay. And one of the things that happened was Congress decided that Federal Alcohol Administration and the Federal Alcohol Act was unconstitutional. So, they decided, well, we're going to do away with this. So, what did they do? They moved it into their jurisdiction, which is the territories. Puerto Rico. Okay. Now, you take their jurisdiction, which is in Puerto Rico, they can enforce the Federal Alcohol Administration Act because the Constitution doesn't apply there. They have a different Constitution than we do. Their Puerto Rican Constitution is known as the U.S. Constitution. Well, as everyone knows, our Constitution is the Constitution of the United States, of America. And that's why all of those patriots out there who interchange U.S. Constitution and say, I want my U.S. Constitutional rights with the Constitution of the United States, they are asking for their Puerto Rican constitutional rights and they just about get them because there's no right to bear arms in Puerto Rico and there's not much other rights. We've read this Constitution and it's really not something that you and I would want to live under. But the Puerto Ricans do and that's because they're a territory. They're kind of a, they're an extension of Washington, D.C., which is the federal enclave. So one of the things to think about when you're talking about VATF is that they're actually the Federal Alcohol Administration. That's mainly what they are doing is Federal Alcohol Administration Act laws. Now, if you were to, if you were to attend the seminar that's coming up on, at the end of July, you would find how you could make Freedom Information Act request to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and find out how to ask questions that you may want answered yourself. As an example, Wayne sent in a request. He wanted the appointment affidavit of the individual who is administering the Federal Alcohol Act. Surprisingly enough, the appointment affidavit he got back was for Mr. McGaugh, who everyone knows is the head of Bureau of Alcohol Fagland Firearms. But the surprising thing was that this appointment affidavit came from the Secret Service. Now, the appointment, the web of stuff under the surface. So it came from the Secret Service instead of where? The ATF. He pointed to the ATF. He sent his request to the ATF and said, please send me the appointment affidavit of whoever is administering the Federal Alcohol Act, which is in Puerto Rico. It's still alive and well in Puerto Rico, but it's not in the 50 states. And the appointment affidavit came back as John McGaugh, who is the head of the ATF, but it was sent to Wayne by Secret Service. So there's a connection there that we're not sure of, but we know that it exists somewhere. So who really is the ATF? They're the Puerto Rican Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms in Puerto Rico. And what is their jurisdiction? The examination of Puerto Rican firearms and Puerto Rican alcohol. So the obvious question is, what in the world were they doing in Waco, Texas? Exactly. Why was the Puerto Rican Bureau in Texas to investigate firearm laws? But they weren't there to investigate firearm laws. According to all the testimony that's coming out, they were there to stop them from committing mass suicide and sexual abuse of children. Well, that's what they're claiming now. However, I've read their delegation orders and they don't have the delegated authority to investigate child molestation cases or mass suicides. So... So no one is asking the right questions at those hearings and we're throwing things at the TV set. Have you sent any of this material into the hearing? Yes. We faxed to Congressman or Senator Zellis. I faxed all the material that I had faxed to you and I didn't expect to hear anything and I was not disappointed. Have you tried anybody from the National Rifle Association? Any of those people that are investigating this? Well, actually, we have and we've had mixed results. We are... Our seminar on July 29th in Phoenix has as one of the keynote speakers Colonel Jeff Cooper who is a wonderful man and who is an NRA director. We're also having another director come from Oregon. Mr. Donnell who is examining this material and Wayne Stump who some people may know out in Arizona is a long-time friend of Wayne Benson and knows a lot about this material and he's the director of NRA and he has written several letters to the NRA but we've been stonewalled by NRA. We've spoken to their... Many of the people we've spoken to have said, well, send me something. You know, and... That's the same as saying you're a nut we don't believe what they're saying. Right, exactly. And so, you fax them something or associates of ours have spoken, had phone conversations then fax them and they said, oh, this is very interesting. Never heard another word. But, you know, they don't even bother to check your references, do they? Well, no. And the thing is is that the material that we're dealing with, the analogy that we use is if you were standing in front of a field and someone who's standing next to you said, there's about five to ten planes here. They're all dismantled down to the nuts and bolts, all different kinds of planes. All the parts are there. All you have to do is just put them together and fly them. All of our material is like all these pieces, parts. The whole thing is scattered around but Wayne has put this together and he's flying these planes and what we're seeing is the emergence of a shape here that's different from what everybody thinks it is. Have you ever been able to obtain and read the delegation of authority for the Bureau of Alcohol to back one fire? Yes, we in fact have their delegation orders. And what does it say? Well, delegation orders work a funny way. What it'll do is it'll say so-and-so is delegated to do this and it'll typically give the law that they have the authority to enforce. As you go through the delegation orders it becomes clear that they are are involved in looking at booze coming in to make sure that stamp tax is paid, that the cigarette tubes are of the correct quality to protect the tobacco, things of that nature. And of course they are involved in interstate and foreign commerce. The interstate of firearms, the interstate commerce is not what we've been led to believe and if anyone, if any attorney when he was defending a case that had to do with firearms would open to the front of the chapter and read the definitions first and he'd understand. The definitions of what? The definitions of interstate and foreign commerce under firearms chapter 44 of title 18 U.S.C. And what does it say? It gives the definition of interstate and foreign commerce. Interstate commerce is commerce between the territories. Foreign commerce is between foreign countries and the territories. It never says anything about the 50 states. It has nothing to do with the 50 states. No, it's irrelevant to us. But, as I said earlier, you must object timely and on point. I can't forget to object or I've agreed to their jurisdiction. So, if someone were to frame you, for instance, and plant some illegal firearm on you or say that you gave them some illegal firearm or illegal piece of a firearm or they were to put it in your hubcaps or under your hood or something like that and then they arrested you for this, what would be the first thing that you would say? Well, in my case, they would have so many motions to answer, their heads would start spinning essentially, I would object to their jurisdiction and we can go all through crimes and criminal procedure and just take them apart. We can start with Rule 54C that says, Title 28, Rule 54C that states an act of Congress applies only to the territories and insular possessions. That includes the Brady Act, the crime bill, all of these things that everyone's very worried about and certainly we are too. But we keep in mind the fact that these things are technically irrelevant to us and don't apply to people in the 50 states. But everyone's running around acting as if they do apply and so they are a threat because people are not objecting properly and saying, well, that's not relevant to me. Well, the reason I specifically ask you that is because you know what's been going on around here and you know that I've been expecting for quite some time for these people to continue to set us up and I, in fact, did a broadcast and told everybody that anybody that wanted to could come and inspect any property that I have because I have absolutely nothing illegal whatsoever, either in my home, in my automobiles, in my place of business, anywhere, and never have had anything illegal. But this happens to quite a few patriots quite often that in order to shut us up, strange things begin to appear that never were there before. How would you handle something like that? Well, what I would do is if I were to offer a suggestion to anyone who may be expecting that sort of incident would be if there's groups of patriots, I would suggest they get together and buy the CD-ROM program that has the U.S. code and just start doing word searches. Word searches like what? Firearms? Yeah, firearms. Interstate commerce. Interstate commerce. BATF. Puerto Rican BATF. Things of that nature. You can start getting the picture. And if there were groups of patriots that really wanted to do something other than hold on to superstitions, they could just say, okay, what's in the law? I want to learn it and pursue it that way. Let's see what the law says. Not what Zeke over here says. This is what someone told him it says, so I believe that. That happens too often. Okay. Now, let's go back to Waco. We've talked about what the reality is. If we wanted to prove this to the people conducting the investigation of BATF in Washington and we could get somebody in front of them to testify, what would they tell them? Well, first of all, they would tell them that BATF is not an organization under Treasury. And what that means is that organizations under Treasury were put there by Congress. BATF was put there by an assistant secretary of Treasury. He would also explain that the director of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms has been named in the Federal Register Internal Revenue Service. He would also explain that in 27 CFR 250.11 that the definition of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms office in Puerto Rico. And the definition of secretary is the secretary of the Treasury of Puerto Rico. So Robert Rubin perhaps doesn't know who he is or perhaps there's we believe there's more than one Treasury. In fact, we're almost positive of that. Well, we know that the Treaty of Bretton Woods created all kinds of funny things with our money supply and actually placed us as a how was that worded? Actually, we are going through a bankruptcy. And the secretary of the Treasury is actually paid by the International Monetary Fund as the United States governor of the Monetary Fund presiding over the bankruptcy of the United States. Well, and the question also is is which secretary? Does one secretary hold two posts? Is he the secretary of the Treasury, the Department of the Treasury of the United States, which is in Title 31? Which is not the United States Treasury. Well, there may be more than two. There's also the secretary of the Treasury of Puerto Rico. And is that the same guy or is that a different guy? And see, in Title 27, also in that section 250.11, the definition of revenue agent is a revenue agent of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. So all these guys who are out there revenue agents, they don't even know who they're working for. Have you ever been able to obtain and see the delegation of authority for the Internal Revenue Service? Oh, yes. Wayne has read extensively on delegation of authority. In fact, he works with it all the time. The delegated authorities for the alleged Internal Revenue Service. And we say alleged Internal Revenue Service because it's not a thing, it's just a term. And so, you know, we could rattle off these nine different IRS's. There's even something called the Official Internal Revenue Service. And so I always say, I only want to deal with them and who are these other guys? They can't be official because they're not labeled the Official Internal Revenue Service. But one of the interesting things about the Internal Revenue Service and their delegation of authority is they have a nice little graph that they've drawn out in one of the Internal Revenue manuals that shows enforcement authority. Enforcement authority is delegated to BATF, Secret Service, and IRS is over all by its little self. No enforcement authority. Right. And another delegated authority we have here shows that IRS agents are delegated to receive bonuses, cash bonuses, for merit awards. So every time they affect a conviction or a seizure, whether it be correct or not, they are motivated by the desire to receive cash bonus awards and even the President of the United States is delegated to receive cash bonus awards. How about the $35,000 at a pop? Now if I were the President I would be saying, okay, here's what I'm going to do, Bill, I'm going to appoint you as Secretary of the Treasury here, but we need to talk about my bonus situation. Well, you know what? That explains why some presidents entered the White House with little money and left millionaires. Those bonuses can add up, you know, $35,000 and it doesn't say how often, I mean per minute. Now is this for confiscating property or collecting taxes or just a bonus for... This is for doing a good job, for doing a good job. A good job could be, as an example, someone would say, why would IRS come after me and put me in jail? I'm not worth it to them. I'm going to cost them money. But the issue is, they just scared your friends all half to death. Now they're going to do whatever they say. They did a good job. They get their bonus. You're in jail. They get their bonus. Well, isn't that one of the biggest problems that allowed them to get away with the abuses and the blatant disregard for the law and the destruction of people's lives is that people are intimidated and afraid to challenge them and to do the research and to... And not only that, they trust lawyers who really don't know this material and aren't taught it in law school. Well, the problem is no one has the time or the resources available to do this kind of research. This could... If everyone stopped production and just studied for about five years, I think the country would be in real good shape. Of course, we'd all be living on the streets, but everyone would know the issues and the authority of the people that are holding the guns to our heads. Wow. Wow. Wow. This is, you know, this is all incredible and I've had pieces of this over the years. I certainly don't know all that Wayne Benson knows and a few of the things that I've learned from you, Tina, and you, Mark, just blow me away. I'd love to read you this other one. I've been using this in my own case. This is called... This is from the Investigative Procedures Manual and one of the other things that Wayne has done is read just about all the operations manuals that the so-called IRS has put out, including a 20,000-page operations manual, which I think he and one other person in the country have apart from the alleged IRS. But this quote here is real interesting. It says, Occasionally the service receives unfavorable publicity upon the apparent settlement of a proposed deficiency for a very small percentage of such deficiency. Most of these cases are the result of the issuance of statutory notices for arbitrarily excessive amounts when the taxpayer has refused to sign a consent or has otherwise failed to cooperate with the service. So it's, you know, this is basically extortion. Arbitrarily excessive amounts. So what they do is if you fail to cooperate with them, they will arbitrarily... And say that again, they will arbitrarily do what? These are the issuances of statutory notices for arbitrarily excessive amounts when the taxpayer has refused to sign a consent or has otherwise failed to cooperate with the service. And it sounds to me like, you know, we'll make you an offer you can't refuse. Well, sure. Isn't that what the mafia has traditionally done? So what they're doing is they're coming to you and they say, you owe us $10,000 and you're saying, no, I don't believe I owe you $10,000 and I want a fair hearing and I'm not going to pay this or whatever you say. And they say, well, in that case, you owe us $500,000 now. Well, or, for example, in my case, I received a 90-day deficiency notice. I proved that it was fraudulent on many, many accounts. I mean, this is not just my opinion. I even proved that the revenue agent who issued it had hand-backdated the notice and then signed his name. And we're not dealing with a major rocket scientist, sir. And I proved this and my IMF, which is my file from the IRS, chose zero. I've had no assessment. I do not owe this money. It's so clear that if I were dealing with any other entity, you know, I could have probably sued them for trying to defraud me. They're issuing many thousands of dollars as a statutory notice and I've accused them of issuing an arbitrarily excessive amount because they are. And that's because I refuse to cooperate with them. Uh-huh. So, but if your file says you don't owe anything, how can they continue to pursue you when their own file says that you're, you have a zero debt? It's called take the stuff first, don't have to prove that you owe. And it's called do you think Janet Reno is going to do anything about it? If I take this to her and show this to the Attorney General, do you think she's going to do anything about it? Maybe she won't get her bonus for doing a good job. So, what you're saying is you're innocent until proven guilty no longer applies. Doesn't pertain. Oh, and it never did because all of these laws and this is for all of those patriots out there who truly believe that this is illegal and unconstitutional, it's way worse and more devious than that. Picture this. You've got a guy who's collecting customs duties. He's got somebody bringing in booze from Puerto Rico or whatever. Why don't you hold that thought because we've got to take a short break right now. Don't go away, folks. We'll be right back. I know you're sitting on the edge of your chairs and you want to hear the rest of what Tina started. Tina, you know when you're talking. America, America and the freedom goes on America, America and the freedom goes on and the freedom goes on and the freedom goes on and the freedom goes on There's a song in the dust of a country road on the wind becomes the call and it sings in the farms in the factory town and where you think there'll be no song at all and the words are the words that our father said as he whistled down the knees and the name of the song is the name of the dream and the spirit goes on specializing real hard assets non-reportable non-confiscatable of course depending upon what category and how much you purchase and it's the only thing in history that has maintained its value no matter what happens to the economy inflation, depression, whatever and everybody needs at least a portion of their assets in hard assets hard money it's the only real legal and lawful money in this country according to the Constitution and the United States Code so if you don't have any real money and you're dealing with this 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words on the courthouse and the scars if we yield to the children a sky full of hope and a flag to fill with us America by the way folks if you're one who's sending your oath and been waiting for your membership they'll all be out to you in your hands within the next week or two some people who obviously have indicated that they're not satisfied will receive a 100% refund of their money which is our standard policy always has been always will be so you can start looking if you've been waiting for your membership and also some of you who have been waiting to be assigned to your your station chiefs those assignments will also take place within the next two weeks let's get back Tina you were right on the verge of telling us something important why don't you start all over again so they don't lose the continuity of this when one thinks of taxes there are many different kinds of taxes that are collected lawfully and we need taxes to run the government obviously one of the ways of collecting taxes is import duties and when the founding fathers set up our country they felt that a good way of generating taxes would be to charge for imports so when you're a customs official and you're standing collecting a tax from someone who is importing something i.e. booze from Puerto Rico you collect a certain amount of money which is prescribed by law you put a stamp give a stamp to that person and say okay you paid the tax that goes on the bottle of booze now you're a government bureaucrat holding money that belongs to the government but that you haven't yet handed over what are you supposed to do you're supposed to file a return and you are a taxpayer a person who collects and pays over the tax you are supposed to file a return as a taxpayer and if you don't file a return the government rightfully can come after you for its money which belongs to the people i think it's a great system it's just that it's grossly misapplied to the wrong people but that is really the system it's been perverted misused and in fact what they're doing is grossly unlawful illegal and improper and it ruins countless lives every year well that's true and what they say is we get our authority from the US constitution and they say that the 16th amendment gives us the authority to tax you but in fact what the 16th amendment did was it gave them the authority to tax people that were Japanese in the Philippines that were making and killing and sending the money back to Japan that's why the Supreme Court ruled that they derived no new taxing powers from the 16th amendment because the 16th amendment can't usurp the authority of any of the previous amendments or the body of the constitution and when they talk about the US constitution that's not my constitution that's right what is my constitution your constitution is the constitution of the United States of America so when they talk about the US constitution they're talking about the constitution of Puerto Rico I mean a lot of people mean the constitution of the United States of America but they're using the improper term it's like your name is William Cooper well there may be another William Cooper and they could refer to him but he's that's correct and another interesting thing that will bear some of this out is we've always heard the name internal revenue there's actually two different internal revenues internal revenue with capital letters capital I capital R and a lowercase internal revenue and these are both trust funds these are also found in 31 USC trust funds for who well one of them is the trust funds for the Philippines the other one is a trust fund for Puerto Rico so if I tell you I'm here and I'm administering the internal revenue laws my question is okay which one Philippines Philippines special fund or Puerto Rican special fund wow and when somebody thinks that they're paying their income tax and they write a check and send it in where does that money go well it's very interesting buried in the middle of this large operations manual which is 20,000 pages is a very interesting page which shows that there are two kinds of 1040s there's a taxable 1040 which is what's called the tax class 6 or excise tax and that's a real 1040 where you collect these monies the customs agents collect the monies and he files a return and that goes to the taxable that goes to the tax fund of the country but what 99.99% of the people are filing when they file their 1040 is classified as a non-taxable 1040 or a tax class 2 and it doesn't go to the same fund it goes into what's essentially a second set of books or you know it's kind of a slush fund and we have evidence that it goes into a fund called Quad Zero where it's embezzled and who embezzled it well does anybody know yeah the district director has a contract and this is in the delegation orders with the agency for international development so there's obviously some kind of connection with the you know international stuff foreign aid you know that kind of thing yeah well the agency for yeah now isn't that the agency that William Casey used to funnel funds to the Soviet Union to build the Kama River truck factory which is the largest production assembly line in the world producing tanks military equipment and trucks for military purposes I believe so but the issue is he couldn't use tax money for that so it came out of a non-tax fund so it's not illegal right it's not illegal it's just if you have the constitution and you have lawful taxation is set out by the constitution and somebody wants to trick people into donating their money thinking that they're required to do it they just create this circle that's around the constitution and everybody funnels their money around the constitution it's not illegal there's nothing illegal about it there's actually one thing that's probably illegal when you file a form 1040 and someone tells you to do it you are being suborned to perjury you are committing perjury because when you file a form 1040 there's a transaction code attached to your individual master file that designates it as a virgin islands tax so you are actually paying a virgin islands territory trust territory tax well yeah and think of the title of the form 1040 it's the U period S period individual income tax a U.S. individual is statutorily defined as someone from the Virgin Islands so I'm not a U.S. individual I am a citizen capital C of the United States of America with a small U I'm not a U period S period citizen and I'm not a citizen small C because all of these things have different meanings I mean think of trying to have a conversation and capitalizing it's mind bending but you can't use the words that we use in conversation and tax law and get where you want to go this is absolutely incredible so you know you blow me away so much that I really don't know what to say next but what you're telling me is a nation or world of people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals who do not have intelligence and such people are beasts of burden and stakes on the table by choice and consent and are considered their lawful and legal well a lot of people actually think they are obeying the law they think I have to do this I didn't mean that as an indictment no I understand I'm using their own words to describe what they're doing to it but there are also those who you can show them the evidence and they say I don't care I'm going to keep doing it because the challenge it obviously incurs some when you go through title 18 which is crimes you can start with conspiracy against rights go to extortion mailing threatening communications you can go on through fraud and false statements mail fraud you can go to straight to rico and interference with commerce by threats and violence and so what can I do about this you say well the U.S. attorney is not going to listen to me so you go to section 1964 of racketeer organizations and go to civil remedies see if you can get your attorney to look at remedies like that but when you go back to what can they do to you you go to civil forfeiture and basically what they have what they have the authority over in civil forfeiture doesn't apply to me so they come and take everything but they committed a crime because I wasn't involved in any of the activities that predicates them the authority for civil forfeiture now you're going to have to explain that because you lost a lot of people what does that mean in everyday language okay IRS says you didn't pay so we're coming to steal oh I'm sorry they don't say that they say you didn't pay your taxes so we have the authority to take your property and sell it to so that we can knock down this tax liability that you've incurred okay but the issue is in in civil forfeiture the way it works it's fairly complicated and it goes among several different titles of the U.S. code it would work something like this is the way civil forfeiture should work okay I bring in Boos from Puerto Rico it goes into a bonded warehouse where there's a stamp tax applied to it say I don't pay the stamp tax okay they already have the material they don't release it that's what the forfeiture is okay okay now there's some civil forfeiture for say drives let's get to the average ordinary person what if somebody accuses you of being a drug dealer they can't find any proof for that but based upon the testimony of this informant they just come and seize your property which happens all over the country all the time by the way folks and in many cases people have not been tried have not even been preferred charges against and never have received their property back right but the problem with that is what they did is they hired an attorney and the attorney says we're going to take care of here's my statement but if you don't do that okay I agree so that's what happens a lot of times and a lot of what we're talking about is not something that can be self taught one of the disservices that many people in the so-called patriot community have done is they've given people this idea here buy this book take this weekend workshop here's a chainsaw now go forth on Monday with Wayne for almost three years I'm about in first grade I'd say Mark's about in second or third grade and we have no illusions about being able to do this on our own this is not a kids do it yourself at home trip this is something which I don't know if we will ever master being able to do it ourselves but we're working at it because it's very important bill sinister word informant it's interesting when you start reading through privacy act systems which are the systems of records which one can access through the Freedom of Information Act or Privacy Act it's what's it's interesting how many of these have information supplied to them by confidential informants and it's like the whole country is okay I'll say anything about this guy just leave me alone and since a confidential informant the identity is never revealed how do you know there was even an informant well anything that's with your name on it you're supposed to be able to get through FOIA or the privacy act and that may involve the testimony of an alleged confidential informant so we have Freedom of Information Act request that Wayne can file relevant to been put there by confidential informant if they don't want to give me that record maybe the request will come back there was nothing in that system so I may send in another request saying please send me the search records there are no search records then I'm going to appeal then I'm going to sue and then if there's something in there that I can't see say an informant's name I can request an in camera inspection by the judge and the judge can remove the portions that I'm not permitted to see and so then you get to see the rest of it that's correct Wayne is very persistent and very effective in getting information through FOIA and that's really his greatest strength and what he's done with it putting all these pieces parts together in fact there's all these senators etc that are investigating Waco and one of the best ways they could do it would be to use the tools that are at their disposal as far as FOIA as an example according to the Waco documents published by and signed by Lloyd Minson there were helicopters that had bullet holes in them I could request the repair records for those helicopters I could request all the small arms that the agent the serial numbers from the small arms that the agents carried on the raid etc I could these are records you can access records so those are some of the things that some of the questions that people could start asking wonderful so how do we apply all this to Waco I mean how could we really wake up the American people and show them that what happened in Waco Texas was a heinous despicable crime comparable to some of the things that happened in Nazi Germany first of all what they could do is they could get the government's report on Waco and typically what they will do is redact half of it so you unredacted versions for sale now one of the things one of the things that people could do is read this see how shoddily it's put together but see the admissions that they make in the report itself as an example that there was an agent inside the alleged compound before the dynamic entry and he came and said hey guess what folks we been had we better not do it and they said we're going to go ahead with it anyway it also explains how they took control of the media we're going to feed you this amount of information and here's what you get to say well we saw what happened there one gentleman asked a question that they didn't like and he was arrested and thrown in jail and took some doing to get him out but nothing is going to happen until enough people it's very important for each person who's listening to this broadcast to ask themselves what can I do and if everybody just did a little then people that are sitting in this studio wouldn't have to do so much what we need to do is get people to ask questions and question authority that was a great bumper sticker back in the 60s and I think we should just bring it back you go to the law and it doesn't match up with what they're telling you what's discouraging sometimes is when you show people things as an example there's some organizations that have done what I think is exceptional research work on some firearms issues such as the Nazi gun control laws that are enforced now in this country almost word for word and I've taken this and shown it to people and they say so by way that's going to be covered Monday night Aaron Zelman of the Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership will be our guest Monday night and this man has done some incredible things I was talking to him on the phone today and you know for all you people out to think that Jews did it you're really so far off base it's not even funny he told me today he says you can't change the mindset of the Jewish people they don't want to own guns but I'll tell you what I want to make sure that anybody who does own guns even if it's only Gentiles never gives them up because none of us are safe if the guns are gone out of the hands of American citizens well we're big fans of Aaron and of his organization and we encourage everyone to listen to that broadcast and become a member you don't have to be Jewish to join we encourage everybody to join that's right he's exactly the person that I was referencing Aaron in my estimation is a true American he understands the meaning of American and he understands that we'll all survive together or we'll go down one by one and if you want to divide yourself up in all these little groups and hate each other then we'll go down one by one and this country will just be history if they allow it to even be recognized as having ever existed in the history books right and from my own experience I I'm American and love this country more than anyone I can imagine because I grew up overseas and I spent 17 years in Kingston for people who owned them and when people like us who had to give up our guns because we were targets did give up our guns we were then slaughtered and absolutely it was terrible the criminals never give up their guns and anyone who thinks gun control will be crime control they're idiots and you know put Sarah Brady in a discussion with me and I'll take care of her she's crazy well she is but the statistics prove it look at Washington D.C. it's against the law to own a gun and have the highest murder rate per capita in the entire nation and in places where people own guns and people know that they own guns you don't have this kind of crime because anybody who's stupid enough to try it is going to get blown away not that I advise anybody to go around blowing anybody away that's not what I'm talking about what I'm talking about is in a society where everybody owns guns everybody is much more polite yes an armed society is a polite society well what can you do to sort of sum everything up in about a minute and a half here well if you are able to attend our seminar in Phoenix it's July 29th which is a Saturday it's a full day seminar and we're taking people in at 9 o'clock and it goes from 9 to 5 with questions it is $60 either prepaid or at the door we're waiving any kind of difference in fees and so if you can show up with $60 cash we've waived it we've decided that we want as many people to come as possible we've been very gratified that people seem to be willing to fly in from all over the country and we're just tickled and we will have Wayne will be giving how to file your own FOIA you'll have a BATF FOIA manual with exhibits in there that will knock your socks off it's a guided tour through the Freedom of Information Act we can be reached we have a voicemail and we can't take all direct calls because there are just too many but please be patient and leave at least one message with us it's area 520 472 1022 that's 520 472 1022 and try to get to the seminar but if you can't we'll be happy to send you information and we may have other seminars of this kind planned throughout the country as we can get people together now just very quickly before the broadcast we were talking about you were showing me some very interesting information about drugs can you just very shortly sort of blow everybody's mind up in essence what I was showing you is that the only thing I can find in crimes and criminal procedure where jurisdiction is actually claimed where they claim the 50 states is something like if you get arrested in any state or federal jurisdiction for selling narcotics or having dope on you or something like that then now we're not going to give you any farm subsidies so what it means really in there according to the federal statutes is you don't get your farm subsidy if you get caught with a controlled substance that's correct well folks I think that ought to open your eyes pretty much not that I'm in favor of taking dope but I certainly am against all of these you know somebody takes a couple of puffs of marijuana now and then they spend 40 years in jail to me is very wrong good night folks and god bless you all if tomorrow all the things were gone work for all my life and I had to start again with just my children and my wife I thank my lucky thought you can live in here today but the flag still stands for freedom and they can't take that away and I'm proud to be an American where it means I go and I won't forget the men who died who gave that fight to me and I gladly stand up next to you and they never to stay but there ain't no doubt I love this man God bless all you and they from the lake of Minnesota to the hills of Tennessee across the plains of Peter China and Detroit down to Houston and New York to LA where the pride in every American heart and it's time we stand and say in they they and they look at bad dreams not bad but it was but it I won'thält it so yes if you don't