The End The End Welcome to the Hour of the Time. If you like amateur radio, if you've ever dreamed of having your own radio station, folks, stay tuned. You're going to love tonight's Hour of the Time. The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here. You are a fluke of the universe. Go tacitly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof. Avoid quiet and passive persons unless you are in need of sleep. Rotate your tires. 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Well, Bill, did you give up? Not at all. Not even thinking of giving up. The fight is only beginning. Well, you heard it, ladies and gentlemen. I can tell you that that's absolutely true. This is one man who's made up his mind that he's not going to buckle in to apparent violations under color of law from a government agency of the federal government. And in this specific instance, the federal communications commission. The man, well, I'll let him introduce himself and tell you what he's been doing and some of his background so that you'll know who you're talking to. My name is Bill Dugan, and I'm owner of Arizona's only unlicensed low-power FM radio station. And I have absolutely no background in broadcasting at all, which is, I think, a plus, because I can't make all the mistakes the broadcasters have made. I have this rather naive and sensational idea that the airwaves belong to the public, in this sense, for my station at least. And the people should be able to come forth and speak on the radio, uncensored. And that's what my station's all about. Well, let's talk a little bit about your background. What do you have a... No, my background, I've been in the graphic arts field for 20 years. I'll say printing, copying, has nothing to do with radio at all. This is something that, in my college years, I did a brief stint at a college radio station. And I suppose when I was a teenager, I had a fancy with radio. But I decided I didn't want to live out of a suitcase all my life. I wanted to fix myself somewhere and have a house and have all the things that, you know, normal people want to have. I didn't want to work in Chicago today, New York City tomorrow. I didn't want to be dependent upon ratings, which people in radio are. So I opted out of a career in commercial broadcasting and went on my way for the last 20 years to just work and be happy. And then I kind of got back into the broadcasting. The broadcasting issue itself is kind of a side to the major issue, and that is citizens claiming their rights under the Constitution. And that's what this whole battle is going to be about. And the broadcasting aspect of the whole scene is just a vehicle for putting this claim forward. But I'm definitely dedicated to the radio station. It's not something I'm going to give up tomorrow. It's coming back on the air probably within 30 days. And the fight against the federal government is just beginning, just beginning. Well, what you just stated as your goal is certainly the goal of this radio station. One of the things that I try to do is wake people up, let them know that they're sheeple instead of people, and try to get them back on track, claim their rights, reclaim their status, so that we can reclaim our country before we lose it and we're rapidly losing it. Before our listeners get too confused, you weren't broadcast. You didn't have anything to do with radio. And all of a sudden you decided to build a radio station. All of a sudden I decided to build a radio station. And dare I say this for fear that it be considered a commercial plug, but it's literally the radio station that Radio Shack built because I went to my neighborhood store and I bought everything I needed to build my own radio station in my backyard. Well, one of the things we're going to talk about on this show is a mistake that you just made. You said it might be a commercial plug. Now, since you've been talking to me for the last few days, why is that a mistake? Because the crux of this issue has to do with interstate and intrastate commerce and whether the federal government has the authority to regulate a wholly intrastate radio station. Also previous to this, you and other people like you who dabble in radio and low-power stations and things like that, call yourselves traditionally pirate radio. I have shied away from the word pirate from the beginning because it definitely has a negative connotation. And it is an uphill battle to fight this because in the news media reports on my station, the word pirate is the first thing that pops up. And no matter what you do to try to get them to abandon that term and go after low-power FM broadcaster or even unlicensed broadcaster, I have no problem with that. They like the word pirate, the media does, because it's catchy. But I've recently made a discovery about the word pirate and added the legal status of that word. I've been labeled now a felon by everyone who has called me a pirate. And I think I'm going to have some fun with that. Yes. Under the common law, which the legal system of this country is based upon, if you do not claim your right, you do not have that right. Correct. So when you allow these media, newspapers, television, radio, whoever it is that's calling you a pirate radio station operator, when you allow them to do that, you are, in fact, by your passive consent under the law, that's what it's termed, passive consent. In other words, you did not object. Right. Therefore, by your passive consent, you're admitting that it's true under the law. You have to go after these people and sue them for libel, slander, whatever applies, because, in effect, they are stating in the newspaper to the community that you are a felon, a criminal under the law by the use of the term pirate. And every radio station operator or ham operator out there who uses the term pirate to describe himself or herself is, in effect, admitting under the law that they are criminals. That's, you know, that's very interesting because just last week I had a gentleman call me from right here in Phoenix, and he's interested in putting together some sort of, I don't know exactly if it's a fundraiser or a media event of some sort. He wasn't really clear for pirate radio broadcasters. And I blew him out of the water. I said, no way. Are you going to have to change the name or count me out? Good. Because those days are over. I have to admit, I certainly don't know all the answers, but I'm learning at life speed. Good. Bill, when you decided to build your station, what did you do? Well, the first thing I did was that I filed a declaration of intent to let everyone know what I was going to do and what my justification was for doing this, the legal argument. I didn't go into it in great detail, but I advanced it. I got it out there. I wanted everybody to know the station was going to be here. It was going to be on the air because that was the whole point. It was a drawing point for the community to come forward and, you know, speak on the radio. A lot of these, I'll call them low-power stations, they operate in the dark, covertly. They're on an hour here, an hour there. No one even knows they exist. I think the majority of the people who engage in this sort of operation do it more for ego than anything else because they certainly don't have any listeners unless they actually call their listeners up and tell them they're on the radio. I didn't operate that way. I went with as much publicity as I could get. You were regularly scheduled station. Regularly scheduled, six to roughly ten or eleven nights, six nights a week. I even filed my declaration of intent with the Federal Communications Commission to let them know that here I am. So you sent this declaration of intent not only to the FCC but to the news media? The news media. Did you send it to any state agencies? No, I don't think I sent it to any state agencies, mostly to the media because I figured the way to get the most publicity would be to go with the media. Too many state agencies, they wouldn't, they would look at it and they wouldn't even know what you're talking about. They would ignore it. Because the state, like most people, is really in some instances a sheeple and don't understand the interstate. They don't know the difference between inter and intra. Yeah, intra-state non-commerce broadcasting could fall under state control if state decided to exercise their Tenth Amendment rights. Correct. And take control. But as far as I know, there's no state agency in Arizona that regulates or licenses intra-state non-commercial or non-commerce non-common carrier radios. If there's an agency out there, it's very well hidden because I haven't been able to find it. Okay. Okay. So, but the important thing is that you sent this declaration of intent to the FCC and you never heard a word from them. Not a peep. Not a peep. Okay, so they did not reply. And you actually went on the air for how long? Five months. Five months. You were on the air. No problems. No problems. As far as you know, there was no complaints from anybody. The biggest problem in my mind was that the station was not, in my mind, it was not being as successful as I wanted. I felt it was being ignored right up until the very last day. I got a little media coverage here and a little media coverage there, but there wasn't the outpouring of community support that I envisioned, which didn't really bother me. Being driven by ego somewhat, I decided to keep on going. But then, lo and behold, on one night, I mean, all hell broke loose. So, apparently, people were listening out there somewhere. Well, somebody's always listening. Someone's always listening, yes. But the main point is you broadcasted for five months. You didn't get any complaints. No. As far as you know, nobody made any complaints. No, and the important point to make here is, technically, there's no complaints that anyone can lodge, because I built this station as methodically as anyone would do. Oh, I know. I know so. Because most Americans, you see, being sheeple, believe that the freedom of speech only applies to them. And if you are not espousing the view that they, particularly, believe in, then they will complain and they will do everything to shut you down, not realizing that in doing that to you, they're also shutting themselves down. But the important point is, at least for my argument with the commission, is that I built this station very clean. There was no technical interference to any other licensed radio station, and that is a crucial point in my argument. I stepped on no one, so to speak. I interfered with no other stations. I did a frequency surge. I did my own engineering surveys, which kind of amazes a lot of people, because there's this aura about radio out here that it's some sort of hallowed or sacred field that only these specialists know how to make it all work. And it's a nuts and bolts operation, just like a gas station on the corner or a discount store. You plug in all the parts, and you fire it up. There's no mystique there at all. Anybody can do it if they just use the brains. So what happened? Well, along about the middle of March, I received a knock at the door. And lo and behold, there were two agents from the Federal Communications Commission. Cake! Cake! What's the hell? I think he isn't helped! And when you opened the door, what happened? Well, it's just like you see on television. Here's these two goons in their $300 suits waving their official-looking badges and announcing that they're from the Federal Communications Commission. And they wanted to talk to me about my radio station. And the door was slammed in their face. And the radio station kept right on broadcasting. Well, that's not what most people do. I mean, why did you close the door in their face? Because they had no authority to even be on my property, let alone to demand the inspection of my radio station. Did they have a warrant? They had nothing. I didn't even get a business card. Nothing. So they were Federal Communications Commission agents... So they said. ...who wanted to inspect your radio station. And so they said they didn't show any identification. Other than this badge, which in the night, in the nighttime hours, could be anything. Well, of course. You can go down to spy headquarters and buy one of those badges, Ken. Yes. They're obligated to identify themselves in state jurisdiction and state the law that gives them authority. Did they do that? They said the CFRs contain their authority to regulate my radio station. They said... And the person who said this was Mr. John Glenn, who is a field agent from the Douglas, Arizona Office of the Federal Communications Commission. He said, we own the radio airwaves. All of them. He said, we own... He used those words. Yes. He did. We own the radio airwaves. All of them. And I said, cite the authority for this. He said, it's in the CFRs. And that's as far as he went with it. Well, Mr. Glenn, I will tell you on the air, on this broadcast, that you do not own the airwaves. You are a servant of the people who fall under your jurisdiction. And, in fact, under the FCC regulations, the ones that we looked at, you don't have the authority to coerce anyone into doing anything. And in this country, you have no right to enter anyone's private premises without a warrant. I mean, that's in the Constitution. You can request, but you don't have a right. And you don't own the airwaves. You don't own anything except what you paid for with your fraudulent Federal Reserve notes and have at your house. And statements like that by public servants really, really upset me. I knew it was important not to let these people into the radio station or into my dwelling because if I did that, I would have been conferring authority upon them. That's correct. I would have been conferring authority on the radio station. I would have been conferring authority on the radio station. And this is where most of these, again, they use the word pirates. If they want to call themselves pirates, let them call themselves pirates. But that's where most of these tinker toy broadcasters screw up is they invite the FCC in like they think the FCC is really going to be impressed. And I don't know what these people are thinking, but they let them in. Maybe it's that knock at the door and it's the intimidation factor. Well, it's really the sheeple factor. The sheeple factor. Okay. Most people in their whole life have never had an original thought. They have never read the law. They don't understand what's going on. And they're intimidated by the slightest show of authority. In fact, these men from the FCC were working under what's called the color of law. And for my listeners, let me explain to you what that means. We all know that a police officer in most cities wears a blue uniform. And on that blue uniform, he usually has a badge, usually has on the sleeve what police department he belongs to, and maybe some other accoutrements of the trade of being a police officer. And we need police officers because sometimes people don't do what they're supposed to do and hurt other people. But suppose a man came to your door dressed in a blue shirt and blue pants and told you that you had to come with him because he was a police officer. Now, that's what you call operating under the color of law. The man was not a police officer. He just wore a blue shirt and blue pants. And he told you he was a police officer. That's the color of law. Usually when you see someone wearing a uniform like that, you automatically think police officer. When a man walks up wearing a suit and shows you a badge and says, I'm from the FCC, but shows you no further credentials, doesn't give you the opportunity to check out his credentials, and tries to make you do something which is illegal under the law, which he has no authority to do, that is operating under the color of law. Now, I know that you've been doing some research before you even talked to me, and then after you talked to me, you began looking into the other areas and doing more research. What did you find out about the actual jurisdiction of the FCC in your case? Well, there are two sections of the Communications Act of 1934, which is found in the United States Code, Chapter 47, I believe. There are two sections in there that are crucial to my argument, and the commission, as far as I know, has never quoted one of the sections. The other section, they cite it, but they never quote it. And I think it's because if they actually quoted it, any reasonably intelligent person would look at this and just roll over laughing, saying, well, you know, they're blowing smoke. But they are Sections 151 and 152. And Section 151 defines the powers and the purpose of the Federal Communications Commission, and that is to regulate interstate and foreign radio transmissions for the purpose of interstate commerce. Okay, all right. Interstate commerce. I didn't see where you were going. And the basic estates within the law that they are to regulate common carriers. Common carriers, right, right. But the other section that they don't ever quote is Section 152, which I think is 152B, which very explicitly says that the Federal Communications Commission has no authority at all to regulate wholly interstate radio communications. In fact, that domain is left to the individual states. That's correct. The Federal Government has no jurisdiction whatsoever in the business within a state. Right. Unless it specifically affects commerce and interstate commerce. I didn't see where you were going a minute ago, but that's true, because it validates my argument even further. And strangely enough, the Commission tries to use the same argument. And I don't see where they're going with it. But there have been court decisions which say that radio broadcast licensing is commerce. So there we immediately have interstate and interstate commerce. And the only instances when a federal government agency can regulate interstate commerce is when that interstate commerce has a significant and adverse impact on interstate commerce. Now, distilling that all down to what it means and how it affects my radio station, if my radio station were affecting any federally licensed broadcast operation, then the Commission would have jurisdiction. But in my case, they can't make that claim, because my station interfered with nothing. Where do you live in the state of Arizona? Where is your studio? Phoenix, Arizona. North Phoenix. And what is the broadcast range of your... Well, I run a half watt into a gain antenna, which gives me one and a half watts in one direction, and I'm still pushing half watts the other three directions. It gives me a total coverage area two and a half to four miles. Okay, so two and a half to four miles, how close is the border with another state or country? Oh, 140 miles over very mountainous terrain. Well, I've got to interrupt you at this point, Bill. We're pushing the clock a little bit. We have to take a short break, folks. Don't go away. We'll be right back after this short pause. Welcome back, folks. We continue now with our interview. So your possible intrusion into another state with your radio broadcast or into another country, which in this case could only be Mexico, is not just improbable, but it's impossible. Because we're talking about line of sight transmission. We're talking about FM. If it were AM... Then you could skip it. Then you could skip or shortwave. That's why the shortwave pirates out there, they don't have a leg to stand on, have absolutely no case at all. Right. I'm in the enviable position, I guess, of being geographically situated in an area. Well, you're in the enviable position of being smarter than the rest of them. Because you have a good case here. Right. So your broadcast does not go over state lines. No. It doesn't even go over county lines. Into a foreign country. And in fact, as you said, it doesn't even go over county lines. It doesn't even get out of the city limits. And sometimes it's doubtful whether it leaves your block. Is that correct? No, it does leave the block. And I monitor it regularly and I make field measurements. But with the transmitter I have, there's no way. The maximum output power is one half watt. That's less than a third the power of a CV unit. Okay. So you don't violate that rule. No. You don't go across state lines. No. You don't go across international borders. No. Oh, another important point is I do not go through any vessels, marine vessels. The last I know, there's no oceans bordering Arizona. And that's an important point because as far as I can determine from studying case law on this, the state line stops at the water's edge. Because there was a case in Ohio where the commission, or actually the Coast Guard, I guess the commission was working in concert with them, monitored an unlicensed station outside the breakwater off the city of Cleveland. And that constituted a transmission to a vessel. And therefore they did violate Section 301. Well, they probably didn't check their law because every state claims a certain amount of water as their own territorial state water. Then the federal government claims another so many miles of water as the national territorial water. Well, I don't cross any state borders. I don't cross any international borders. And I don't, unless they pull a Coast Guard vessel on a trailer up in front of my house, I don't think I'm making it to any vessels. And if they did, it wouldn't stand up. No, it would not. But the other thing is, is the commerce factor. Do you engage in any commerce? Do the people know exactly what commerce means? Well, I doubt if anybody out there knows what in the hell we're talking about at all. Well, it is strictly a nonprofit operation funded out of my pocket, which is one of the reasons of why it is not on the air now, because concurrent with the little visit by the Federal Communications Commission, I guess I suffered one of the outstanding legacies of the Reagan Bushnomic Economic Plan. I lost my job. And when I lost my job, I lost the funding for the radio station. So it's funded completely out of your pocket. Yeah, completely out of my pocket. In fact, you're... We're running a deficit. But you're running this radio station basically as a hobby and in the best interest of informing the community. There's no commerce involved. No. Do you take any commercials? No. Do you sell any advertising? No advertising time, no program time. It's all available. Do you accept any money from anybody for anything? No. Do you pay for the programming that you air? No, the programming has to become to me free. I will not pay for any programming. So therefore, you do not come under the definition of commerce whatsoever, much less interstate commerce. You don't even come under intrastate commerce, do you? No. No. Absolutely not. Therefore, under their own rules, the rules of the FCC and the law, you are not under the jurisdiction of the FCC at all. Correct. Now, let me tell you, ladies and gentlemen, dear listeners, that I have thoroughly researched this myself. And I am very good at this. And I can tell you without any doubt whatsoever that the FCC, in this case, is operating under the color of law. They're actually committing a criminal act. They're attempting, by serving a writ of apparent violation upon Mr. Dugan, to extort. Now, that's a crime. That's a felony. They're attempting to extort from him $17,500. He has been convicted of no crime. He has been denied any due process whatsoever. He has been ordered to reply to their notice of apparent violation, which I and others have advised him definitely not to do, because if he replies to their order, he gives them jurisdiction by his own action of replying to their order. In fact, they have no authority to order him to do anything. And in the law that we were just reading a few moments ago, what did it say? Well, this is very interesting. According to Brandywine Mainline Radio Incorporated versus the Federal Communications Commission in 1972, the commission can only inform and advise the broadcast licensee as to the law. It cannot coerce a licensee to comply. That's interesting. In other words, they have no power to enforce. They have no enforcement power. They're solely a licensing agency, period. Correct. And they can only license stations engaged in interstate or intrastate commerce, and only where the intrastate commerce affects intrastate commerce. Correct. Correct. And we're not making this up. We're not reading it out of law books. This is right out of what? What is this coming out of? This came out of, okay, this is Title 47 of the U.S. Code, wire or radio communication. In other words, what you just read is written in the law, Section 301. Section 301 is the section that the commission draws that like a gun. They pull that to everybody, but the interesting thing about Section 301 is they draw it, but they never shoot it. They don't let anybody, they never cite it. And they never cite the whole section of 301. They'll cite one or two lines. It's like taking one or two lines out of the Bible, you know, out of context. You can look at it. It'll say anything you want it to say. Sure. And they know this. They know what the law says. They know what their limitations are. But most of them, many of these people, belong to the secret societies that are subverting the government of the United States. And they are intentionally operating under the color of law to prevent the citizens of this country from broadcasting the truth that could stop them in their tracks. The total object of their operating under the color of law to shut down anyone who they have not themselves approved or licensed, as the case may be, is to prevent the broadcasting of the truth. Or any information that contradicts, whether it's the truth or not, contradicts what the established power elite want the American people to know. Otherwise, why would a man who's a law-abiding citizen who works for the FCC deliberately, with intent, with malice aforethought, break the law to shut down a radio station like yours, which does not in any way come under their jurisdiction or violate the law? These men are criminals, aren't they? Yes, they are. And what are you doing about this? I mean, they filed a writ of apparent violation. It's kind of interesting. Actually, they haven't filed it. They just sent it to me. What happens when most people get this writ of apparent violation? Well, they do exactly what it almost says on the writ itself. Drop the money in the envelope and send it in. And in this case, they don't even provide you with the envelope, let alone the stamp. Or I suppose the average individual contacts the FCC and gets down on all fours and barks and begs and grovels for mercy. Or they hire a lawyer. What does the lawyer do? The lawyer does the barking and begging for them because I have some experience in that area. But that's not the route that I'm going to pursue. They plea bargain down to a lesser... Offense! No, no, no. You have no commitment. It's an apparent violation. What is an apparent violation? It's nothing. Nothing. It's like alleged. It's like... It's a scam is what it is. It's an extortion. Exactly. We found that you have committed an apparent violation. And you must pay us $17,500 or we'll break down your door and confiscate all your equipment. And maybe we'll charge you with criminal charges and send you to jail. Now, what they do when they do that is a crime. It's called extortion. Yes. It's operating under the color of law, which is another crime under their own federal regulations, United States Code. And has carries with us some stiff spines and punishments. $10,000 and I think a term of a year or, you know, a term, at least a year. Yeah. $10,000 always equates to a minimum of one year. It could be more, but a year and or both. Now, so how in the world did you get hooked up with me? What are you doing on this radio show? Who put me in touch with you and decided that you are the tower of knowledge here. You are the person I need to hang around with, I guess. And I'm learning. I'm learning a lot just in my few conversations with you. And here we are today airing this so everyone gets to find out what their government is up to. Or at least those that are conscious. So you had documents and letters all typed up and everything that you were ready to send. What did you find out about that? Well, actually, I almost committed a most grievous breach. You're going to throw me off the show when I tell you what you know. I retained an attorney. So we don't have some boos and hisses there because, boy, is that a joyride. But my attorney is going to do, I think, exactly what you said. He's going to plea bargain me down to a lesser offense. And my attorney doesn't know this yet, but of course he will by the time this is aired. That's not going to happen at all. I have prepared my own non-response. It is not responding to their alleged notice of apparent violation or whatever it is. I am demanding that the Federal Communications Commission show the point of law that gives them the authority to regulate this radio station. And if they do not produce that within 10 days, two things are going to happen. Number one, the station's going back on the air. And number two, I'm going to file my own action in federal court against the individual agents involved in this illegal harassment. And we'll see what happens. It's going to be very interesting. But you're also going to file criminal charges. Yes. And you're going to file for an injunction. Yes. Exactly. Excellent. Now, most people who have tried to do what you're doing now before have always buckled under when they've come to the door. Or they've always fought the battle on the wrong points of law. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. They'll fight it on First Amendment. Or they'll say, well, the commission should do. They don't fight it logically at all. I mean, they pull the wildest things out of the air that you could possibly imagine. And they don't do the research. They don't cite it. No, they don't do any research. They've never looked up Section 301. And right under Section 301, it refers you to Section 151 and 152. And one of them is infrastate and the other is powers of the commission. And it's like a puzzle. It just all starts to fall together. And here are all these court cases under each of these sections which validate, in this case, my argument. Now, let me tell you, dear listeners, that it's not just the FCC that is doing this. As you've heard on other broadcasts of the hour of the time, the only hour that is, ever was, or ever will be, the hour during which you will decide your future and thus our collective futures. You've heard that the IRS also does this. You've also heard that the Food and Drug Administration also does this. And right on down the line. There's not an agency of the federal government that has not been infiltrated by the secret societies who are bent upon destroying this country, who are not taking away, under color of law, illegally, criminally, the rights of the citizens of this country. And that's going to stop. And that's the whole purpose of this radio station, this broadcast, is to make sure that it does stop. And the reason for having Mr. Dugan on tonight. And we're going to put it so that you guys listening, or you girls, or whoever it happens to be, you can go out tomorrow, purchase your equipment, make sure that you've got the right equipment, make sure that you're not broadcasting any farther than... Don't cross any state lines. That's right. Make sure you stick to the letter of the law. Make sure you're on a frequency that in no way at all could ever be misconstrued to interfere with an interstate broadcast. And this is very important because most people, first of all, they don't have a clue about how to do this. And conducting this frequency research does not mean turning on your 995 tabletop radio and going, here's a blank spot on the dial, I'm going to put a station here. Because there's a person that's done that right now in California, and he's not faring too well. And I would advise that you stick to FM. And all of you should contact each other. Form a strong association. Do not incorporate. Do not incorporate. Make sure that you don't make any profit. Form a strong, self-supportive association where you can be strong and together, collectively. Don't hire an attorney. Challenge the FCC in court every time they step on your toes, or even attempt to step on your toes. And you're going to find out how to get back at them. You can't sue the FCC because it's part of the government without the government's permission, so don't even try. What you do when they perform these criminal acts, and what you do when they violate the law under the color of law, and attempt to extort money from you, or to coerce you into doing something that you do not have to do, you don't sue the FCC, folks. That's the wrong avenue to take. You press criminal charges against the individual agents in the FCC. And that can run from 1 to 10. You never know how many are going to show up. Right now, the number with me is 3. You know, it can be any number. You can have 5. You can have 2. You have to get their name, address, phone number. If they won't give you their private address, you have to get their work address, and they have to give you that. If they're acting as an agency, they have to give you their office address. Then you file civil suit against them for the violation of your constitutional and civil rights. And then you link up with the pilot connection. 6333 Pacific Avenue, Suite 334, Stockton, California, 95207. Or you can call them at area code 209-957-5493. That's 209-957-5493. Now, their services aren't free, folks. It'll cost you some money, but it's well worth it. They'll not only teach you how to get free of the IRS, but they can teach you how to file a $1 million common law suit against these people, a common law lien, if you will, a $1 million common law lien against these people and their property, and that can't be lifted by anyone but you. So they have to eventually come and talk to you. Why is it that the lien can't be lifted by anyone but you? Simply because there are no common law courts left in this country. And believe me, folks, when you file a common law lien against their property, the only one that can lift it is you. And if you want to pursue it, the sheriff must go and confiscate that property and turn it over to you under the law. We're going to talk about that in tomorrow's program. Right now we're going to take a little break, and then we'll come back and talk some more about what's happened with Bill Dugan. And it's time that we began to stand up and protect our rights, take our rights back from those who would usurp them, and in thus doing so take back our country because we're rapidly losing it. Top story tonight. Federal agents raid what they call an illegal pirate radio station right here in our valley. Agents from the Federal Communications Commission ordered the operation shut down. But tonight the station remains on the air. The low power station operates from a homemade studio in North Phoenix, near 5th Street and Union Hills. And broadcasts from that station do reach only a few short miles away, but that's enough to get the attention of federal agents. Mike Macklin spoke with a man who runs what he calls Arizona's most controversial radio station. Mike's here now. Tell us about him. Inquiry, it's very controversial. Four months ago, Bill Dugan fired up his new radio station in North Phoenix. Tonight the FCC ordered him to shut it down. It is not a powerhouse, two watts at the most, but it seems to be creating a rather powerful reaction with federal officials. The group asked you to be denied this to shut your radio station down. I'm afraid I can't do that. Representatives of the Federal Communications Commission confront Bill Dugan in front of his house in North Phoenix. They do not appreciate his low power FM station known as KAPW. Now my job is to get unlicensed stations off the air. Why? Because it's against the law. Why? Don't the radio waves belong to the public? They don't belong to the public? No, you don't want to debate that because you'll lose. You'll lose because I know the people that are listening to this broadcast right now know that the radio waves belong to the people and the government has taken them away. The debate centers on a tiny transmitter located in a reconditioned backyard studio. A controversial signal that only stretches a few miles. Bill Dugan programs four hours a night, six nights a week on 88.9 FM. A mix of recorded talk shows and ethnic programs. A non-profit operation. I guarantee you're not going to hear it anywhere else in the state of Arizona. Radio like you've never heard before. And may not hear much longer. Dugan vows to keep broadcasting even though he's up against the U.S. government. Let's take this into court and let's let the people decide. I'd like a jury of 12 people to sit here and say Bill Dugan is guilty of some crime. And I don't think it'll happen. KAPW continues operating but maybe not for long. The FCC plans to turn the case over to the U.S. Attorney's Office. Most likely they will end up confiscating Dugan's radio equipment if he refuses to shut down. Now how did the FCC find out about his radio station in the first place? Well Claire, a few complaints were launched with the Arizona Attorney General's Office. The AG's Office then informed the FCC about the situation. And those representatives showed up at his house tonight. Yeah, okay. Thank you Mike. The Phoenix Police tonight investigating yet another murder in our valley. The legislature tells us now the FCC wants to shut down what is billed as Arizona's most controversial radio station, Frank. That's right Heidi. Now if you're looking for KAPW FM, you can find it on 88.9 on your FM dial. But if you turn it on right now, all you're going to get is static. Because the station only operates between the hours of 6 and 10. And while it may be small, its owner says the point he's trying to make is very big. This brings to the conclusion yet another edition of the Bill and Walt show right here on Arizona's most controversial radio. Earlier tonight KAPW was still on the air, even after being visited by FCC representatives. They were there to explain to Bill Dugan that his makeshift radio station, which is housed in a shed adjacent to his trailer home, is on the air illegally. There's a violation of law here. You must have an authorization from the Federal Communications Commission to operate a broadcast station in the United States. We hear the airwaves belong to the public, but where does the public get a chance to express their views on the air, to take control of a radio station, to set the direction of the programming? Well, here. Here's one place. It's small, but it's the beginning. But with all beginnings, there is an end, and the end for KAPW isn't far off. The FCC is planning to take whatever steps necessary to pull the plug on the radio station. Otherwise, you would just have chaos if there wasn't some control and limits on the stations. They would operate on the same frequency and with power such that they would interfere with one another, and we couldn't have a radio broadcast service in this country. Now, I don't know what's going to happen when the marshals come knocking on my door, because I am, you know, I'm just not going to open it up and say, well, here, guys, take everything. You know, I would give them the transmitter if I thought that would pacify them. And, of course, how hard is it for me to get another transmitter? It's not hard at all. So I hope it doesn't get ugly. Now, Dugan, as you heard, is adamant that he's going to try to keep his radio station on the air, and the FCC is just as adamant, Heidi, that they're going to turn him off. And that game pass could be resolved in the next day or two. The FCC officials say that they probably will try to get some search warrants and have the U.S. Marshals out here to turn to pull the plug on KAPWFM. All right. Thank you, Frank. That was the actual news coverage of the night. The famous night. The famous night. Yes. And they ended up saying that the FCC was going to get the warrants. Right. Try to get the warrants, get the federal marshals, and come and seize your equipment. What have they done? Nothing. The reason they haven't done anything is because they can't under the law, and that's why they sent you a notice of apparent violation. Right. One thing that I always tell people on this show is don't jump into the pool if you're not willing to swim the distance. Are you ready and willing to go the whole distance on this? All the way. And how far is all the way? Putting the station back on the air, filing the actions in court. That's the first step, and then pursuing it. Okay. One of the things that we know from past performance of some of these government agents who operate under the color of law is that they want to intimidate you into complying with their illegal orders. Right. And most people do. We found that whenever someone challenges them on the points of law and knows what they're talking about and is willing to go the distance, that sometimes they back off completely because they don't want it to get into court and have a ruling made from which other people could cite that ruling and open the floodgate of broadcasting. That's what they don't want to do. So we know that sometimes that's a possibility, but it's in the best interest of the people to have it go all the way in court and have rulings made on the points of law. Have you made any decision as to whether or not you're going to pursue it even if they don't? I would like to. I would like to. Yes. Pursue it. There are avenues open to you, such as the filing of civil suits against the individual agents and filing criminal charges against them. You know, that's strictly up to you. I would like to see it go all the way, but I would never be one who would come and badger you should you decide not to do that because you're the one who ultimately bears the brunt of the expenses and everything else. Right. That would be a factor. Of course, the thing that's changed my mind tremendously since this whole event took place in March is the fact that I think I'm 100% right and they are 100% wrong. Well, you are 100% right and they are 100% wrong. They don't even know their own rules and regulations. They don't know case law. They don't know anything and they rule by insemination. Well, don't say they don't know because they really do. They know exactly what they're doing. Do you really think they know? Yes. They know exactly what they're doing and they're doing it because they have been told that if they don't, their job is in jeopardy. They've been told to prosecute and make sure that nobody gets on the air without being licensed by them. And they're doing it under the color of law to save their own butts, so to speak. Okay. Well, for all of you out there who have been shaking your head and laughing and telling your neighbor that this program was a waste of time and you'll never get away with it, I've got news for you. I just gave you a double whammy to teach you a lesson. To teach the sheeple a lesson. You see, this show was first aired on August the 17th, 1992. That's a long time ago. And after giving William Dugan the constitutional case histories and doing the research and sitting down, having some long discussions with him, setting him on the right track, William Dugan won. He won. He does not come under the jurisdiction of the FCC. He is not licensed. He is on the air. However, he is an intrastate, low-power FM station operating legally in Phoenix, Arizona, and we are proud that we had a hand in helping him do this. So let that be a lesson to you. And until next time, good night, and God bless you all. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.