why device is Come on. Come on. One of the largest natural water aquifers in the United States. Initial studies indicate that this plant would pump between 500 and 600 million gallons of water from the aquifer every single day. Ladies and gentlemen, this would cause the water level in all of the wells in east-central Arizona to drop significantly and maybe to a level that would make it impossible for the farmers, the retired people who own acreages, and the small towns existing in this area to survive. Folks, would this power plant benefit the citizens of the state of Arizona? The answer is no, for the power created in this facility is going to be shipped to the great state of California to provide electricity for the millions and millions and millions of people who dissatisfied with their original point of origin, headed west until they met the great barrier of the Pacific Ocean and were forced to stop. Now, now there are so many of them there that the natural resources in the state of California cannot provide for their existence. And the whole point of the whole point of the whole point of the whole point of the whole point of this story and the whole point of this story and the reason that I am against this atomic power plant is not on environmental reasons, but simply because I have for the fact that the citizens of my state, Arizona, are going to have to suffer any of the harmful effects of this atomic power plant, if there are any. And for sure, the loss of the damage that they are going to be, and for sure, the loss of a tremendous amount of water which will be pumped out of the ground to cool this reactor every single day. And the tax dollars of the people who live in the state of Arizona are, of course, as they always are in situations like this, going to go to pay for an awful lot of the expenses surrounding this proposed plant. Which, by the way, isn't really officially proposed yet. It's all being done under the table, and you're going to hear it for the first time tonight, the first time in 13 years that they've attempted to build an atomic power plant somewhere within the United States. Why the state of Arizona? It's simple, folks. All the environmentalist wackos and coops in the world live in the state of California, and they haven't got one chance in hell of building an atomic power plant in that state. So they're coming to the state of Arizona, where we have a sparse human population. Most of them have a habit of minding their own business, and they hope to get away with building that plant in Arizona to pump electricity to all the coops, wackos, and environmentalists in the state of California who are screaming for electricity but will not allow the plant to be built in their home state. Stick around, folks. This is going to be an interesting show, and we're going to be interviewing one of the people involved in uncovering this deception, this fraud, this deceit, this manipulation. The way that they have conned the people into helping to support their efforts to find a site is just absolutely terrible. These people, ladies and gentlemen, these corporate entities always operate in this manner. They are, in fact, liars, deceivers, manipulators, and thieves. Tonight, our guest is Mark Savers, who owns a real estate business in east-central Arizona in the small town of Snowflake, where I recently interviewed Travis Walton. Mark has been one of the principal agents in uncovering this fraud, this deceit, this manipulation. He is also one of the primary activists who are opposing it. If you are one of those who constantly complain that you are just one lonely little person and there's nothing that you can do, then I want you especially to listen very carefully to tonight's episode of the Hour of the Time. Hour of the Time Hour of the Time Hour of the Time Hello, my name is Mark Savers. I'm a resident native of Arizona, born and raised in Phoenix. I went to East High School there. Left there for two and a half years in the Army. Between, I was a preparatory student for West Point, before I was disqualified because of my niece, and went to the Army and served in Germany, served in Thailand for 18 months, and then came back to Phoenix, Arizona to get a job with the utility there, Salt River Project. Salt River Project. And what is that? Salt River Project is a utility that generates power and regulates the water irrigation system for Phoenix, Arizona. Is this hydroelectric power? Salt River Project is a part of the generation, but I was trained for the coal-fired plants, and specifically the coal-fired plant in Page, Arizona. And that's a famous lake, isn't it? Lake Powell. Lake Powell. And don't they have a dam there, the Glen Canyon Dam? Is that the name of it? Yes, I do. Lake Powell. That's a real beautiful area. Why did you leave there? I wanted to live in a pristine area, and regardless of the economy or the financial ramifications, I wanted to live in a place that wasn't polluted by a power plant, where I didn't live under the threat of some accident happening that could threaten me or my family. So we made the choice to move east of Snowslake, Arizona in 1972, and I gave up my power plant job to build fence, cut firewood, and eventually get into real estate. And what specifically did you specialize in? What was your expertise when you worked for the energy conglomerate, so to speak? I was trained for the coal-fired plant at Page, although I operated gas and oil fire plants in Phoenix, both the Kyrene generating station and the Alwa Freya generating station, and I was eventually assistant control room operator before I left Solver Project. Okay. And these were all hydroelectric and coal fire plants? Coal and oil fire plants. Okay. And they have the same procedure in the turbine steam as the new nuclear plants do, and the process is similar in generating the steam to generate the power. Okay. And so you live in, what would you call this, central Arizona? East central Arizona? East central Arizona, and I live in an area between Cholo and Concho, Arizona, that previously was a cattle ranch has been settled over the last 20 years by 600 to 800 families that have chosen to leave the safety problems of the city and live in the country in a rural setting where they can feel safe and secure and their families feel safe and secure. Who makes most of the population out here? What age group? In Snowflake itself, the average age is 20 years old. There's a lot of younger people, but in this specific area, it's mostly retired people that were born on a farm in the Midwest, moved to the east or the big cities, made their money, and then decided to live in the rural kind of area they were raised in on a farm without the heavy snows where they came from. And Mark, why would they pick this area other than there's not heavy snows in the winter? It doesn't really, winter is not life-threatening here, but other than that, why did they pick this area? The safety of their families, the feeling of safety, the rural area that they live in is just like a time warp going back 20 years in time where there is very little crime. There's very little things here to worry about except the worms on your tomatoes. Gardening is probably the one thing people have most in common here. Plentiful source of underground water has fueled this area as a retirement area. People can easily develop the water and raise small gardens, orchards, and live in a real simple, safe, peaceful surrounding. Isn't it a fact that most people derive their water from a well? That's correct, and the average water depth here is 360 feet, and we're on one of the largest aquifers in the southwest called the Coconino Aquifer. Now, I know a lot of people out there in the listening audience are scratching their heads because we're talking about Arizona, and the average person, when you say Arizona, they think of cactus and Gila monsters and rattlesnakes and 120 degree heat in the summertime and 90 degree heat in the winter. What's the truth to that? Well, Arizona is one of the most diverse states in the nation, and we go from the high pine forest at 7,000 feet in central and central eastern Arizona to a level of 5,600 feet where I'm at, where we have mild snows, cool summers, and unlike the perception of Arizona in general. But unlike the rest of the country, Arizona is a dry, airish state, and where water is, people are, and where water is and people can't be. There is no, there's few areas in Arizona where you can go and have a plentiful water supply available to you and a clean and unfiltered or uncontaminated water supply. And so many of us in Arizona are finding it harder and harder to find the pristine environment to live in. This is one of the last there exists in the southwest, and it's worth any kind of effort to save it. Now, because of this concept that most people have that Arizona is an inhospitable desert, the state still remains pretty much sparsely populated, and those of us who live in Arizona are really deriving the benefits of this pristine, beautiful wilderness with the herds of elk and deer and antelope and an unbelievable amount of wildlife and forests, for instance, not very far from where we're sitting, is the very last virgin stand of forest in this country on the Fort Apache Indian Reservation. And as you said, a lot of people come out here, and by and large, I think the smallest parcel that I've seen is five acres, and the majority are between 20 and 40 acres in size. And this is where people come to build their dream home and retire in the country, where they can have real wild animals walking through their backyard when they get up in the morning. And as you said, this is one of the largest aquifers in the United States. So they have plenty of water. And by and large, everyone here is very happy with their life, very happy with where they live. In fact, it's kind of a dream world. But something is now appearing that may threaten them. What started this? What happened that made people begin to look askance at the world and say, hey, what we left is now coming here to threaten us? Something about a fish farm, wasn't it? That's how it all started. Two years ago, the town councils, four years ago, Feintop, Lakeside town councils were approached and both contributed heavily to a feasibility study for a fish farm in their area. And two years ago, Snowflake and Taylor were approached, their town councils, that this company would like to raise northern salmon in Arizona and ship it to a California market. And that we were a prime site for it, but due to the company's financial inabilities and the lack of financing attained, they came to the towns and asked for taxpayers' money to finance a study to see if this fish farm would be feasible. Now, weren't people suspicious when they said this? Because without being a fish expert, I know that salmon will not spawn without swift running water and shallow gravel beds where they can lay their eggs and fertilize the eggs and they have to have an upstream current to maneuver against to reach this spawning ground. Without that, salmon won't spawn. And how in the world were they going to make a fish farm under those conditions in Arizona? They were going to artificially create this environment by pumping out of this aquifer tremendous amounts of water. 11 million gallons a day was going to be pumped out and a net return of 30 to 40 jobs was all we could hope for for that kind of water. But the area is so desperate for jobs. There's been a lot of jobs lost in the timber industry. Our local paper mill has laid off one shift that people were desperate and put pressure on their town councils to come up with the money to see if this would be feasible in our area. And this real impact on the area that costs all these jobs is really a result of environmentalism, isn't it? That's the conclusion that the environmentalism is the loss of the jobs. But in our paper mill situation, we're locked in a bureaucratic deadlock. It has nothing to do with the environment. It has nothing to do with a spotted owl. It has nothing to do with environmentalists. The problem is the bureaucracy. Now, new guidelines were set and new procedures had to be followed for timber sales to be approved. Now, our forest has many small trees that the Forest Service would like to thin out so the larger trees would grow, which provide a tremendous source of paper for our paper mill. But because of new procedures in timber sales that have to be followed, the bureaucracy between the Fish and Wildlife Service and the Forest Service and the Fish and Game has deadlocked these timber sales so that there's temporary layoffs at these mills or at our local paper mill. Our mill in Eager was shut down because of the size of timber that was needed to run it. But another mill has opened in its place and hired most of the people that were let go from the first mill. So what we have is tremendous industry pressure on price gouging and raising and all with a new villain, the environmentalist and the spotted owl. The price gouging that's gone on in the timber industry has been revealed as price gouging and had nothing to do with the shortened supply. Okay. Now, and then all of a sudden, these people come in. They promise 30 to 40 jobs at the top end. And they're going to start a fish farm to raise salmon for a market. And, you know, if they could do that, it would be a moneymaker. But I think there would be a lot of obstacles in the way. One of which is water. They needed tremendous amounts of water. But then somebody began to look into this and noticed that something was haywire. What was the first indication that these people may have been looking for something other than a fish farm? We have an adjudication process ongoing in the state in our particular region where all of the underground waters are allotted more to first people to use the water. And the process is a legal process that's being handled through the courts. We had deadlines during the time the feasibility study had just been finished to make filings if there were going to be any large water uses or large water extractors in the area. And when the people who asked for this money for the feasibility study didn't spend any of the money in applying for the adjudication of the water, a lot of us were suspicious that this was not being used for the proper purpose. And in my particular area, I could hear seismographic testing going on four to five miles north of my place and a helicopter coming in every night to pick up the crew and bring them back in the morning so they're not even exposed to the town members. But seismographic testing is not done for shallow fish farms or ponds. It's only done for large sites such as nuclear power plants. So you now and other people here believe that instead of a fish farm, these people are really looking for a site and doing seismographic testing and exploring for the possibility of building an atomic power plant. That's correct. And we were informed two weeks ago through a news release in our local paper that there was a possible reactor site north of Shoah. Now, no one will disclose who it is that wants to build a nuclear power plant. It's being... This information is coming through the White Mountain Regional Development Corporation, a private company that works with the town council to try and draw a new industry and development to the area. But the fact that they're not releasing any information except that they've already chosen three sites, three possible sites 35 miles north of Shoah shows that tests have already been performed to choose these three sites and those tests were from the taxpayers' money in the form of a fish farm feasibility study. So they actually deprauded the citizens of this area where they went in and got this money from the cities which was taxpayer money. to fund a feasibility study for a fish farm when in effect what they were doing was performing a feasibility study to locate a site for a nuclear power plant. Is that correct? That's correct. That's exactly what was done and the way that it's being presented to the local populace they're not even mentioning the small towns of Snowflake and Taylor that would be less than 15 miles from a nuclear plant site. They're choosing to go to a town farther away like Shoah to show the proximity it would be to a town when we're going to be close to the five mile gate the dead zone around the nuclear power plant will be just outside the town. Now they're doing that obviously because they don't want to stir up environmentalists by stating that there's a human population within the very close proximity of this power plant that they're desiring to build. But after this broadcast everybody in the world is going to know about it. Now Mark other than the obvious dangers that we're all aware of of an accident happening in an atomic reactor and causing sickness or death within a certain radius depending on which way the wind is blowing and how far it blows and what kind of radiation leak there was and how much and all that kind of stuff. What else is wrong with building an atomic power plant in this area? There's a multitude of different things that are wrong with it and the number one thing for the whole nuclear industry and it was our president's stated claim that no new nuclear plants would be sanctioned until we solve the problem of the waste that comes from them. At the current time there's only one facility in the United States accepting waste from other states and at the time there are no new waste sites that have been approved that must be approved before the waste that we create for generations to come can be safely located. Now if we have a show of hands out there in the audience who would like to have a nuclear waste facility close to them and where they live? There would be very few hands going up. All of us want to have inexpensive power but it's being shown that the nuclear industry is raising the cost of power. The real question is why would we go ahead and sanction a new plant when the questions of these hazardous waste have not been solved? The other main reason for opposing it is that it is inappropriate for our local tourism economy. It's a very ill-conceived plan that while it would provide 600 jobs at a cost of 500 million gallons of water a day we would lose over a thousand jobs to our existing tourism industry that's operating now. and the new industry of gaming that the Apaches have worked real hard to get approved now has not even had a chance to show its economic benefits before something like this will detract from it. A lot of people do not want to go and recreate in an area that they feel is unsafe. Now aside from the tourism and everything else what will how many millions of gallons? 500 million gallons a day is what the Seabrook plant uses and since there's no source of cooling water here you normally see these plants built in Phoenix it uses sewer water for cooling on the coast it's all ocean water at the Choya power plant up north it's the Choya lake that's used for cooling water. We have no source here of cooling water it all has to be pumped from our aquifer. And if they're pumping 600 500 to 600 million gallons a day what's that going to do to the aquifer? None of us know the exact answer to that question we're having studies done now through our Citizens Alliance for a Safe Economy to... Well let me ask you this will that water be put back into the ground? If it comes up and cools the reactors it's going to go back into the ground? If it goes back into the ground the cooling water stands a chance of contaminating all the water in the region and contaminating the entire aquifer which would make a ghost town out of all northern Arizona we don't even like the water to be extracted at the site where a possible earthquake could cause underground contamination of our aquifer. Well wait a minute you're talking about California earthquakes in Arizona? Earthquakes in Arizona are not uncommon in Flagstaff this year experienced the five point earthquake aftershocks another major earthquake at the Grand Canyon this year I think we can see our weather patterns are not following standard procedure and our earthquakes won't necessarily follow the San Andreas fault Arizona has a lot of occurrence of earthquakes and when we look at the chance even the slim chance of a major earthquake contamination of our underground aquifer we're looking at relocating a third of Arizona to a new area. the fact is isn't it that one of the major earthquake faults existing within the United States runs along the Magodian Rim? That's correct and we're likely to see more earthquakes as our unsettled weather pattern continues. Now Mark the Atomic Energy Commission would reply to your statement that cooling water taken out of the ground and used to cool a reactor would not be contaminated in any way because of their safety precautions and their strict requirements and all of this kind of stuff absolutely prohibit any kind of leakage into the cooling water and they would also tell you that between the cooling water and the reactor is a closed circuit of cooling water that transfers the heat from the reactor to the open circuit cooling system and how would you reply to that? I know the answer but there are millions of people out there listening to this broadcast who don't have the foggiest idea of what we're talking about. In my experience as a power plant operator it was not uncommon to have cooling water leaks and I think all of us are real familiar with the technology that we work in today is not foolproof and from hauling the waste over railroad cars to different parts of the country to the closed loop cooling system the water going through it how many things in today's technology work correctly and maybe the Hubble telescope is a good example of that even through our best precautions and millions of dollars spent accidents do happen and we're all human and the people who design the systems are human and what we're looking at today is the aging of our nuclear reactors over half of the nuclear reactors in the country now are past their midlife of 20 years 40 years is all they're expected to operate and now we're seeing more incidents of accidents and now if the equipment ages companies will be looking at a decision of whether to try and keep the plant financially profitable and produce electricity or whether to shut it down early and incur millions more of cost to decommission that plant early and I think what people of the United States that are using nuclear power now don't realize is that the decommissioning cost to take these plants out of service is highly underrated according to all estimates including Moody's report on the nuclear utilities investor owned utilities that shows that these plants now that they're aging are having higher incidents of accidents and they're not considered a good investment according to their outlook it's time to take our break folks don't go away we'll be right back after this very short pause well folks what you're hearing tonight doesn't sound very good does it another another example of extortion fraud theft of money from the taxpayers of the state of Arizona to finance a non-existent fish farm feasibility study in order to choose a site for an atomic power plant a nuclear reactor to furnish power to the state of California now I want you all to understand that I'm against this solely on the grounds that the citizens of the great state of Arizona should not have to suffer any inconvenience any financial expense or any dangers from radiation any loss of water from their groundwater supply to furnish the citizens of the state of California with electricity because the citizens of the state of California harbor the cooks of the world who won't allow them to build an atomic power plant in their state I'm against it I will oppose it now couple that with all the floods in the Midwest the extreme drought in the South and you can foresee famine the lack of food stuffs folks there's going to be a food shortage based upon all of this we've already done the research and I can tell you it is sound there is also going to be a rise in the cost of food because of the market effect of supply and demand when supply is low demand is high now couple that with the drop in the value of the dollar the slowly creeping inflationary process upon our economy with the testimony of Mr. Greenspan the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board who speaking on C-SPAN several nights ago said that they could not hold it back any longer there is going to be rampant inflation in the near future folks you better do what I've been advising you to do all along there's only one thing that can protect you against that and that is the ownership of hard assets in the form of precious metals specifically what's proven to be the best throughout history gold and silver and specifically gold and silver coin now I don't advise you to spend $5,000 for a coin that has $100 in actual worth of gold content in it because if you do that I think you're going to lose big time I don't care what anybody else tells you and I'm not pinging on anybody else I'm not telling you not to listen to anybody else you listen to whoever you want and you do with your money whatever you want folks I'm telling it to you from my point of knowledge from my research and based upon that I have to advise you to call Swiss America Trading the people who back this program who pay for the airtime at least give them a chance to tell you what they have to offer what they can do for you the number is 1-800-289-2646 that's 1-800-289-2646 the first 200 callers of course will receive Harry Fiddy's report entitled Tackle the Debt that's 1-800-289-2646 you have a responsibility to yourself and to your family to investigate the means to protect your assets now before it's too late every day you wait the dollar loses a part of its value and you lose some of your assets whether it's apparent to you or not it is happening what you've worked all your life to gain is eroding away right before your very eyes and most of you are not aware of it but when you become aware of it you don't do anything about it now call now 1-800-289-2646 1-800-289-2646 tell them William Cooper sent you and you'll also get a free newsletter on protecting your future that's 1-800-289-2646 1-800-289-2646 folks by protecting your future you'll be protecting the future of this program the hour of the time and freedom for the world call now 1-800-289-2646 that's 1-800-289-2646 you'll be glad that you did now there are some people I mean we've all been taught about the dangers of radiation and the dangers of the uranium fuel that's used to create the heat in an atomic power plant and we've all been taught the dangers of the radioactive waste and what radiation sickness can do to people and we know that when they dropped the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki that hundreds of thousands of people became ill with the radiation sickness and ultimately died and that there was genetic damage and some of their children's children are suffering from those incidents now but I hear every once in a while people say that this is all a scam that radiation is not the danger that we've been taught that the atomic waste is not waste at all but it's very valuable and can still be used to create very cheap low cost electricity and all kinds of things what's the truth to this do you know if there's any truth to this or if this is a scam are these people pimping for the atomic power industry are they trying to make us believe that there's no danger represented by any of this are they trying to make us say that Chernobyl was a lie Chernobyl Three Mile Island are proof that accidents happen the next day after Chernobyl we measured radiation in flight staff from that blast the question is is it dangerous did it hurt people if it wasn't dangerous we wouldn't have evacuation plans in place for even the people who create the plant know that we have to be able to evacuate large portions of the population in the event certain conditions exist within the plant and whether or not we ever have a major nuclear accident or whether or not there's a time when hundreds of people are killed or affected by this there's a feeling of safety and it's a freedom that all of us as Americans have that's constantly being eroded from us in other words you don't want to be sitting in your home wondering if it's safe or not whether it is or not doesn't make any difference the fact is that there's enough evidence there that just having that near you would interfere with your daily life and cause your family to have a fear intervene in your home that shouldn't be there that is the real issue here and we live in an area where there are no major catastrophes from mother nature this particular area doesn't get hurricanes doesn't get tornadoes doesn't get as a real earthquakes doesn't get any major catastrophe that we have to spend any of our lives concerned about and now we're talking about creating something within our midst that we have to fear and I don't think there's anyone in the listening audience out there who believes that there is nothing to be concerned about in living next to a nuclear power plant even the banks won't finance homes within 10 miles of a nuclear power plant the Farmers Home Administration will not offer financing to any home within 10 mile radius of a nuclear power plant maybe there's some reason that we shouldn't live close to them now not only that but if they're really truly going to take five to six hundred million gallons of water out of the aquifer per day if that water doesn't go back down into the aquifer that in fact is going to cause the water table to drop considerably over a period of time and maybe cause it to drop so far that all these people who live up here who have wells will no longer be able to live on their property is that correct that's correct and my own home would be one of the first affected by that I have an orchard deciduous tree the big garden all of which I've built over the last 20 years would have to be sacrificed so that we could have the benefit of this nuclear power plant making power in Arizona and shipping it all to California well you just said it you said so that we could have the benefit but in truth there's no benefit to the citizens of Arizona we have plenty Arizona is so sparsely populated that we have an overabundance of power we have several dams we have several rivers we have we don't have a problem with power in Arizona the fact is that most of the power that's generated from hydroelectric plants and coal and oil fire plants in Arizona is sent somewhere else isn't that true that's correct and Southern Cal Edison has a major portion of the nuclear plant in Arizona now the Palo Verde nuclear plant in Phoenix I see now the Palo Verde plant is rated by Moody's as a significant risk in their three categories of ratings as risk in power plants theirs is considered the most dangerous and is rated significant and their credit rating as far as Moody's goes is the lowest they announced the other day they would have to go into chapter 11 if they didn't get a huge rate increase to pay for the nuclear power plant in Palo Verde how can this be I mean they're charging electric rates just like everybody else only everybody else has to pay for a constant supply of coal and oil to fuel their plant they don't have to pay anything to fuel their plant I mean their fuel rods according to what I've read last from 30 to 40 years so what is this I mean if they're charging the same rates and when everybody else raises their rates they raise their rates and they're always touting the fact that nuclear energy provides cheaper electricity and we look around and we find out that that's just not true what are they putting over on us Mark the trouble bill is they're tying in nuclear energy the federal government would like to see the nuclear energy companies maintained so that if they need to go into a nuclear bomb production they have the benefits and the reason for all these enrichment programs that the government is paying for but there's no more big boogeyman the Soviet Union's gone why would they need atomic weapons that's the problem and that's why we they as an industry have to build more nuclear power plants to justify the expensive programs that both the government and the power companies are enjoying the benefits of now we are currently paying as taxpayers a uranium enrichment program to provide the enriched uranium for these power plants at taxpayers expense none of the utilities have ever paid for this enrichment process this is another hidden cost that's passed on to taxpayers now when we hear these people on other radio broadcasts telling us not to be afraid of radiation not to be afraid of atomic accidents that they would eat the waste material from an atomic power plant that wouldn't hurt them and that they can take this waste material and create electric power that would be cheaper than anything that we're paying now and it would take us out from under the burden of all this overhead of expense for electricity and power and we know from past experience that nobody ever lowers prices nobody ever lowers prices and once a price is raised it never comes down and they just wait for the next excuse to raise it I think these people really are pimps for the atomic power industry and I don't believe for a minute what they're saying and anybody can go back and check the casualties and the sicknesses and the damage to the environment and to people from atomic accidents that have happened in the past and then you sit and listen to these people and what they're saying is absolutely insane there really is a danger isn't there there really is a danger and the real real danger is economic where all those rate payers are going to be paying much more in the future for power if we let the nuclear industry continue with this program we have not yet paid for disposal of the waste that we've already spent this is a legacy that we're going to leave for our grandchildren and I'd like to know how we explain it here's a pile of waste it's real close to you we want you to be real careful with it and take care of it for your lifetime and your kids lifetime and we generated power with it for a few years here and we enjoyed it while we had it but now it's time for you to look after it what kind of legacy is that to leave and how can we make waste that have to be watched forever this is a process that has really no benefit for any of us and our alternative energy resources have to be experimented have to be paid for by government sources like they're funding the nuclear industry now so that we can develop industries and energies that are safe for our country not energies that are going to cause possible destruction or even the unsafe feeling of the people that have to live near it and the more we know that the more pies that the government has its finger into the worse off the rest of us really are the more control over our daily lives the bigger the bureaucracy known as the federal government becomes the more taxes they keep telling us we have to pay which is an illegal direct tax forbidden by the constitution anyway on individuals and we could go on and on and on but what are the citizens here doing to deal with this we have a ground roots organization called the Citizens Alliance for a Safe Economy and they can be reached at P.O. Box 2421 Pinecorp Arizona 85935 why don't you repeat that that's the Citizens Alliance for a Safe Economy and that's P.O. Box 2421 Pinecorp Arizona that's P.I.N.E. T.O.P zip code 85935 and we're interested in any of you listeners out there who would like to join us in this fight against this nuclear power plant the nuclear industry is making its first attempt in 13 years to put this across to the public and if we can stop it here we may be able to stop the nuclear industry from building any more power plants that are taken away from the safe feeling of all of our systems now for those who would say this is safe and natural and everything like that it's not none of these atomic fuels are elements created artificially by nuclear reactors exist naturally in nature and they have havelocks that go anywhere from very short to thousands of years let alone in our lifetime but in nobody's foreseeable lifetime even in grandchildren and great grandchildren and great great grandchildren is this stuff going to be safe safe now I'm not doing this show just simply for the fact that it's a danger because of the radiation and because it's taking out groundwater there's a lot more to it than that I resent tremendously having to pay for and suffer the hazards and dangers and the things that this represents in my state to provide power for a whole bunch of idiots who live in the state of California because you know we've learned this and this is absolutely true the reason there's so many insane crazy people in the state of California is because when someone is dissatisfied in the northern hemisphere they always go west until they can't go any farther this is the truth so everyone in this country of the United States of America who is dissatisfied wherever they live usually not all of them but most of them go west until they can't go any farther and when they hit the Pacific Ocean that's the natural barrier they can't go beyond and they stop there until they make a lot of money and are able to go on further in the southern hemisphere it's the opposite for some reason now this may have something to do with the Coriolis effect that makes clouds spin clockwise and counter clockwise depending on the hemisphere they're in but in the southern hemisphere people who are dissatisfied wherever they live go east and it's a very strange phenomenon but it happens to be true so we have this tremendous population in the state of California that cannot provide their water or their own power their own electricity because there are just too many people and it's because all of these dissatisfied people have moved west until they've reached this natural boundary called the Pacific Ocean and now they're asking us in this state who have one of the best environments left in this country to live in to put our lives in hazard to furnish them with their power and I resent that I don't like that at all I think it's wrong it smacks of socialism where a whole bunch of people have to suffer to provide for the whole so to speak who can't provide for themselves what do you think about that Mark I agree wholeheartedly and I think it's time in this country that we take this decision to a national referendum where a nuclear power needs to be voted on by the public residents of the United States to see if we as a country as an educated people believe there is a future for nuclear power in this country it's too big a question for politicians it's too big a question for town councils local supervisors it can only be answered in the democratic process that this country was founded on and I'd like to see how many people out there would join us in gathering enough signatures to take this to a national referendum of whether or not we want any more nuclear power plants built in this country well I think that's a good idea and I would encourage my audience to contact who would they address their letters to citizens alliance for a safe economy po box 2421 pintop arizona 85935 and if you want to put referendum on the outside we'll know which where to direct your letter so it gets immediate attention but we feel that within the state and within the country it's time for citizens to make a decision on nuclear power not politicians and this is the first time in how many years that they've tried to build a new atomic power plant in this country in 13 years it's been since there's been any commissioning of any nuclear power in this country and there's again our president stated that we would not sanction any new power plants in this country until the question of solid waste low level waste high level waste and rad waste have been solved and to date there is no way to solve these questions because no one in their right mind wants to live close to a waste site and any of you who do want to live close to a waste site write us and let us know and we'll do our best to send this nuclear power plant your way or live next to a plant that produces the nuclear waste and it has to travel on your highways and your roads and be transported somewhere now I want my listening audience to understand that you hear all this stuff that atomic power is safe that the waste material is not dangerous and all this other kind of stuff go back and study what this radiation has actually done to people and animals and the environment where it has leaked into the atmosphere or into the groundwater or into the environment in some way and you'll find that somebody's pulling the wool over your eyes or else there is such a tremendous hoax being perpetrated but you know when we know that people have died and been damaged from radiation and from nuclear accidents then we cannot take the word of somebody who comes up and says that it's not dangerous and that they've eaten I want proof I want somebody to prove to me scientifically where I can see that this isn't dangerous and I don't want them to come to me and hold up a little pellet and say that this is uranium U-235 or whatever it is and eat it and tell me it's harmless I want to go get the pellet I want to make sure that it's really what they say it is and then I want to put it in their mouth and watch them swallow it and then monitor them for a few weeks because one thing I've learned folks is you can't trust people nowadays there are so many baloney BS stories and outright hoaxes and deception and manipulations being perpetrated so that a few can make a lot of money from those of us who don't have a lot of money and also to bring about a one world totalitarian socialist state which they call the new world order is not going to be good for any of us this NAFTA treaty for instance that they're perpetrated and trying to bring into being will destroy the middle class in this country and we're already losing jobs in industry just on the promise that it might come so we have to be very careful about this and for someone to come to my state and tell me that I have to agree to put my family at risk that we may be drinking contaminated groundwater that we may lose our groundwater altogether that we may be living in proximity to an atomic explosion waiting to happen or leakage of radiation that could harm an awful lot of people and animals and plant life and everything else. I'm not an environmentalist you all know that but for somebody to do that to benefit someone in another state is absolutely abhorrent to me. I think it's wrong and irregardless of anything else I would oppose it just on that ground and no other. Mark you have some final words you'd like to say to the people out there. We have a few minutes. Go ahead. Well I appreciate the chance to talk to everybody and I appreciate your interest in our particular problem. By the nuclear waste standards we're considered to be NIMBYs. A NIMBY is N-I-M-B-Y is not in my backyard. And I am definitely a NIMBY and I don't want to see it in my backyard but after studying the question in detail I don't want to see it in anyone's backyard. I think it's time that we make a choice. that we're going to live in a safe environment. We're going to develop alternative energy sources. And this is a question that now is real critical at this juncture that we decide whether new nuclear power plants are a thing of our future or a thing that we as a people decide that we don't want to see in our future. future. And I would invite everybody to join in this cause. We all need sources of good economical power but we cannot pass this legacy of waste and sickness on to generations of children that have not yet been born. No one did that to us when we got here and it's not right of us to do that to them. Thanks for the opportunity to talk. And just in closing I think the biggest scam that we need to really address is when they build these huge hydroelectric dams which produce electricity. They tell us that this is going to be the cheapest source of electricity there is because it requires no fuel whatsoever. None. And that as soon as the dam and the equipment is paid off then the electricity will only be billed for what it takes to upkeep and maintain the operation and pay the salaries of the employees of generating this hydroelectric power. But we see that years and decades after the dam and the equipment and everything has been paid off the rates have not come down. The rates never come down. They just keep getting higher. They keep saying, they show us a set of books that say they need to raise the price. But you go in and calculate what they spend on actual repairs, upkeep of the equipment and the dam and the payment of salaries to employees. And somebody's lying to somebody and we're all being scammed and we're being milked for billions and billions of dollars each year to pay for energy, folks. And we don't need to be paying that much. It should be easy for every listener out there to understand that if it costs less to build a dam and a hydroelectric power plant and it takes less time to pay off all of the expense of creating that dam and for the purchase of all of that equipment and the rates are still high and still keep increasing, that atomic power is not ever going to be cheaper. It costs more to build an atomic power plant and it requires fuel. Well, notwithstanding, the fuel has to be replenished every 30 or 40 years. It still requires fuel. That fuel is expensive. A hydroelectric power plant requires no fuel ever. Once the dam is built, unless there are extended periods of years of drought, the fuel is a given. It's always going to be there backed up behind the dam in the form of water. Now, ladies and gentlemen, the purpose of this show is not to disparage anyone else or to make you believe anything. The purpose was to let you know of a proposed building of an atomic power plant in the state of Arizona by fraud, deceit, and theft of taxpayer money in the guise of building a fish farm. They have put one over on us and they're well on the way to making this thing a reality, at least in the beginning stages. So, we would like for all of you to call or write Mark Saylor, and if you didn't get the address, call Snowflake, Arizona in the 602 area code and ask for Cabin Masters. That's the name of his real estate office. Ladies and gentlemen, I don't believe that this kind of thing should ever happen to anyone. If the state of California wants electricity, let them build their own atomic power plants in their own state. And if they can't do that, I recommend candle making as a good business to get into. Until next time, good night, and God bless each and every single one of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.